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7% of Americans don’t use the internet. Who are they?

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Re: 7% of Americans don’t use the internet. Who are they?

#371

Post by LoLFactor »

re-actor wrote: post #302
LoLFactor wrote: post #290

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My apologies for the banality. The completely obvious truth that internet is a necessity in 2021 somehow escaped me... Or maybe it didn't and that was the whole point. Given that these people are here, they are obviously engaging in internet usage that IS NOT part of their job (I've yet to see a job posting where reading HN is a requirement). Nobody is pushing anybody to use certain parts of the internet. Don't like…

Thanks your position is much more clear to me now. Why the aversion to complaining? Sometimes things are bad and need changing, and sometimes all you can do is complain. There's a certain alure to saying "don't like it don't use it" and that being the end of it, but at the same time it doesn't acknowledge the fact that these concerns might be legitimate, and sure, something else can always be worse, but that doesn't…

I have a theory and why the internet is the way it is. It's because it's mainstream. It used to be "better" (as some would put it) because it was niche. Only the passionate and the interested were on it. Nowadays everybody and their grandma is on a social network... literally. Stands to reason the space would "devolve". Why? Because of what Carlin once said (paraphrasing): Imagine how stupid the average person is. Now realize half of the world is even dumber than that.

Most of the complaints here were basically about human behavior on the internet. If it were complaints about actual technical problems or engineering problems related to the internet, I'd get it. I mean, you could argue that Facebook being a walled garden is actually a structural problem of the internet, but really, it isn't. The internet hasn't fundamentally technically changed. You can reach content outside of those silos if you want and search for it (i.e. you're actually interested), but guess what? People don't want to leave that walled garden. They want stupid videos, recycled quotes and propaganda. Propaganda is soothing. Searching outside of your silo would run you the risk of finding conflicting opinions, or God forbid, conflicting evidence.

The internet is "worse" today then it was some years ago because more and more dumb, ignorant and uninterested people are on it. Which is to say the internet now more resembles the real world then it did long ago, when it more resembled a (somewhat) private club for more interested and passionate, educated people.

The way I see it, the world has always been full of dumb people who screw it up for everyone. The internet just makes it much easier to see.

So I don't have an aversion. I understand the frustration as well, I just find complaining about it risible. Given that complaining identifies the problem and nudges people towards a solution, how do you cure mediocrity and stupidity?

P.S. When you have a chance, check out "The basic laws of human stupidity" by Carlo M. Cipolla. It's a 15 minute read and well worth it. You'll get a better understanding of where I come from.

Re: 7% of Americans don’t use the internet. Who are they?

#372

Post by toss1 »

tclancy wrote: post #363
silverfox17 wrote: post #341

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just don't follow toxic sources, that's all he's advocating. If someone's sharing memes from a crazy political page, either block that page or remove the friend. People say social media like Facebook is toxic for the most part because they only deal with toxic people.

It doesn't work that way. I pruned both Twitter and Facebook intentionally in the way you suggest and it became pretty clear (or maybe it's my biases) that both run on outrage. Facebook would insist on bringing arguments to the top of my feed as best it could. As an example, I am friends with a regional sportswriter on FB and he had a post asking something sports/ politics related. It generated about 50 responses, so…

IDK about FB, I always avoided it like a toxic plague.

But on Twitter, there seem to still be work-arounds. I use lists set to Private, curated for specific experts on particular topics, and many top and/or obscure experts post regularly.

This provides a reasonably straightforward chronological feed, curated to my interest, with well-tuned news and links to key analysis. Just NEVER use the main Home feed (which they do push on you).

IDK how long that feature will stay unpolluted by toxic algorithms, but Jack does seem a bit less determined than Zuck to pollute society.

Re: 7% of Americans don’t use the internet. Who are they?

#373

Post by agumonkey »

ramraj07 wrote: post #86
random5634 wrote: post #76

I used to work in the Caribbean when internet there was ridiculously expensive. Local social life was fantastic - I missed nothing about the internet. Also - I missed nothing about not keeping up to date on latest news - locals just didn't care what was going on for the most part - the latest "outrages" were 100% irrelevant. If you went to bar at night, and IF they had a TV on, it was sports. So you'd come back to th…

People always bring up how people in Fiji or the Carribean are so happy and not stressed, and I’m not sure what the message is. Of course if you just want to relax and not worry too much about what you want to accomplish in life then yeah go to some corner of the world and live happily? However for a lot of people that’s not what they want out of their lives; they want it to mean something in their own way. Of course…

I'd be surprised if anybody really wanted spending time hearing about useless horrible event after another alone in his flat.

Re: 7% of Americans don’t use the internet. Who are they?

#374

Post by _fat_santa »

random5634 wrote: post #76

I used to work in the Caribbean when internet there was ridiculously expensive. Local social life was fantastic - I missed nothing about the internet. Also - I missed nothing about not keeping up to date on latest news - locals just didn't care what was going on for the most part - the latest "outrages" were 100% irrelevant. If you went to bar at night, and IF they had a TV on, it was sports. So you'd come back to th…

Echoing this. I visited Cuba when I was in college. While I was there the only way to access the internet is to buy an "internet time" card (costs like $2 and gives you 30min to 1hr online) and connect at a public hotspot.

It was actually quite nice being forced to disconnect. It's almost funny how quickly you go from wanting to know what is going on in the world to not really caring anymore, when it's out of mind you don't really think about it.

Re: 7% of Americans don’t use the internet. Who are they?

#375

Post by random5634 »

appletrotter wrote: post #297
random5634 wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think instead of saying it's relaxed, I would describe it as very local? Folks work pretty hard in Caribbean, but when I was there (a fair while ago), I also worked dang hard. But you absolutely felt like you were in a bubble. You really could imagine that Israel and the Palestinians would have an intifada / war and no one would notice. You drank after work with the folks you worked with (in west this is a no no fo…

> You drank after work with the folks you worked with (in west this is a no no for many good reasons) It's like you've never been to a Western country`

I live in the US - and drinking with staff of different levels is tricky for a number of reasons. Inappropriate behavior broadly defined is not tolerated, and drinking is already in that category in many California and east cost areas. Public transit / jitney's etc are not great so a lot of folks drive to work and back which makes drinking harder.

Your right - I should have said US (and maybe just progressive areas).

Re: 7% of Americans don’t use the internet. Who are they?

#376

Post by agumonkey »

snerbles wrote: post #369
agumonkey wrote: post #353

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please don't be crazy. I don't like the current web either but it's important to be objective and calm.

The poster may be impassioned, but characterizing a hot take as "crazy" looks like a bad faith argument.

I may have read it with the wrong tone.

Re: 7% of Americans don’t use the internet. Who are they?

#377

Post by agumonkey »

busterarm wrote: post #354
agumonkey wrote: post #353

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please don't be crazy. I don't like the current web either but it's important to be objective and calm.

First of all, I am calm. Second of all, there's nothing crazy about what I said. By their own admission they've designed the apps to be addictive. Would you tell your friends "go ahead, shoot up. have a great time!"? Would you tell your family? What I think is crazy is that we tolerate companies that make products like this. I guess greed is a powerful force.

Yes it's been shown that they're tricking people into addiction. I wasn't responding to the arguments more about the 'every ounce of hostility'. Their marketing strategies are sad[0], but you seemed to be all-in in a war against them which I think is misguided. Sorry if crazy was too strong of a word, I didn't meant it as a personal insult. I believe hostility and reaction is the wrong tool for this issue.. let's simply quit and invite others to do others to do so.

[0] we're still having deadly cigarettes sold everywhere you know..

Re: 7% of Americans don’t use the internet. Who are they?

#378

Post by unishark »

psds2 wrote: post #285
kilroy123 wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is it so high? Are these people immigrants from developing nations or something?

From the https://nces.ed.gov/datapoints/2019179.asp link - "U.S.-born adults make up two-thirds of adults with low levels of English literacy skills in the United States."

They were talking about illiteracy. The "low literacy" stat is dominated by people at level 1, which is not illiterate.

Re: 7% of Americans don’t use the internet. Who are they?

#379

Post by wxnx »

kube-system wrote: post #359
wxnx wrote: post #309

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> My first reaction was “7% sounds low”, but again, that’s probably biased by my own experiences. That was my reaction as well, particularly based on how the question was asked - it was very specifically about the Internet, not mentioning specific services that someone with low technological literacy might not associate with Internet usage (e.g. Google Maps, or Facebook Messenger) [1]. [1] https://www.pewresearch.org…

Even then, I'd consider someone using Google Maps or Facebook Messenger to have moderate technical literacy, decent regular literacy, and a better-than-worst financial situation.

Quite right, poor choice of phrase on my part.

My point was that there are people who are e.g. legitimately surprised when their high-speed data connection drops and it prevents them from using Google Maps on their smartphone. To them, it's functionally a GPS, not Internet-based at all. Similarly for certain messaging apps, which integrate with the phone's OS so tightly that it's not apparent that they're using Internet-based communication vs. SMS.

My larger point was that to then expect all respondents to a phone survey (on a measurement significantly linked to technical literacy, no less) to make similar distinctions unprompted is perhaps a bit of reach.

Re: 7% of Americans don’t use the internet. Who are they?

#380

Post by slg »

ClumsyPilot wrote: post #239
amelius wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> 99% (...) of what happens in the “news” is totally irrelevant to you and your life beyond the initial outrage it provokes. Just like voting has almost zero effect. However, is not voting wise? In what direction would society move if nobody watched the news?

The society would be mich better off. I find your equation of "news is like voting" appauling. News has almost no informational value like covering Russel Brand when he was running around telling people not to vote. We need more people voting and speaking to their representatives, and fewer people outraged about something some random brainless celebtrity said.

Why are so many people in this thread equating news with celebrity or outrage culture? News is about learning and understanding current events. If you don't understand current events, you can't be an educated voter. If you have a societal obligation to vote, you have a societal obligation to follow the news at the very least whenever there is an election in your area and those occur much more frequently than once every 2 or 4 years.
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