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Signal Adds Cryptocurrency Support

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Re: Signal Adds Cryptocurrency Support

#81
post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This obsession with crypto killed Keybase for many of it's users and honestly this could be a bad news for Signal.

The problem with Keybase is that its UI should be a lot more polished. Other than that, how does using cryptocurrencies interfere with chat?

The blog post touches on it,

> It’s that adding a cryptocurrency to an end-to-end encrypted app muddies the morality of the product, and invites all sorts of government investigative and regulatory meddling: by the IRS, the SEC, FinCEN, and probably the FBI.

Personally I'd be most worried with the last part of that.

Being a purely communications application, governments (and their organisations) who want to interfere with it, regulate it, and track usage are clearly trying to interfere with/track speech.

They can block it, they can regulate it, but it's clear that it's about speech. There's still the issues around "Terrorists/Pedos might be using it", but so far that hasn't been hugely successful, at least to date.

With Signal adding cryptocurrency, well, now there's territory that governments can clearly stand on and say "No no, we're not trying to monitor/track/regulate speech... we just want to know that it's not being used to fund terrorists".

Australia, like the US and other countries, requires notification on large value transactions, or transactions that add up to a certain amount.

The Australian Tax Office treats cryptocurrency differently than cash[1], so you need to report your transactions and information on who the other party was.

Those are all things where Signal can be required to start reporting these things, and where Governments can start to impose regulation.

Sure, maybe Signal gives the Australian and US Governments a middle finger and says "We don't know, and we're not going to add capability to track it".

Non compliance will then result in Signal's application being removed from the appstore/google play store, and now your userbase drops to folks who can install an APK or like rooting iPhones. Effectively killing the utility of the network.

This is right on the back of Signal actually starting to gain popularity and having a chance of actually being able to use it to contact folks I know who I didn't directly tell to go install it.

[1] https://www.ato.gov.au/general/gen/tax-treatment-of-crypto-c...

Re: Signal Adds Cryptocurrency Support

#83
Among people I know, most individuals send money to each other via Venmo. This presents two problems: how to be sure you're sending money to the right person, and, the transaction is data-mined by Paypal. So, having payments inside of Signal actually would solve both those problems (if both people are using Signal).

It could also be, that Signal is trying to turn their app into a platform, like WeChat.

Re: Signal Adds Cryptocurrency Support

#84
post #40

Could somebody elaborate the animosity towards being able to pay in Signal, or and perhaps also the animosity towards Signal itself? I use it, seems like an e2ee and uncluttered messaging app that just works.

Because instead of supporting the coins that exist (Bitcoin, Bitcoin Cash, Ethererum, Monero etc.), some better than others, they did their own coin and the creators of that coin own most of it.

They could also have just have added a payment API and let anyone develop against that.

Re: Signal Adds Cryptocurrency Support

#85
post #28

After convincing all my friends to move from WhatsApp to Signal I am really annoyed about this move. This really damaged the trust I have for Signal. I hope they realize their mistake quickly and drop this idea.

I think it won't be problematic as if someone doesn't want to create wallet they dont have to. So this payment option will be for only those who wants to enable it.

It feels scammy and annoying though, making people less likely to accept it, exactly like Keybase and Stellar. First time I got a Stellar email from Keybase I thought it was a literal scam.

Re: Signal Adds Cryptocurrency Support

#86
post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That seems wrong, is like if Mozilla forces crypto in Firefox. there will be many Firefox users that will not like it, it is not only the haters or Chrome users that will complain, hopefully maybe you can see the missing 4th perspective.

I don't believe the main competitors to Firefox (Chrome, Edge, Safari) offer a payment mechanism? So this wouldn't be required for core feature parity. However the two main competitors to Signal (Telegram and Whatsapp imo) do have a payment mechanism.

I had no idea WhatsApp and Telegram have cryptocurrency support, I only use WhatsApp because I need it for soem school parents group though... but even if Chrome would add Gopogle Coin support I still will not like if Firefox forces it and not make it an optional plugin (people still complain that Firefox added DRM support for media so this is not theoretical)

Re: Signal Adds Cryptocurrency Support

#87
I am suffering from messaging app fatigue, using WhatsApp, Signal, Telegram and iMessage on Android and/or iOS. No sooner than witnessing a significant portion of my contact list migrating to Signal from WhatsApp, after the ToC/privacy debacle, now there is another spanner in the works.

Telegram failed with the TON project, trying to mix oil with water, in their attempt at cryptofying their platform. Signal should focus on solidifying their lead, and provide core messaging features with robust privacy, instead of a scattergun approach. Elsewhere, WhatsApp is already attempting to make a come-back with new cross-platform/multi device features, to eat away at all the gains.

https://www.androidcentral.com/whatsapp-will-soon-let-you-tr...

Re: Signal Adds Cryptocurrency Support

#88
post #7
post #5

I see no good way out of this, if someone forks it and removes all that extra attack surface I guess Moxie will fight it, as he doesn't want many compatible clients. And if the crypto features stays in there it will become another avenue for pump-and-dump schemes, so I can no longer recommend it to people without looking like a crypto hustler.

Fight it? How?

Moxie has a history of being an asshole to anyone trying to make a third-party client. They're prohibited from using the OWS servers, which do not federate (so they couldn't talk to Signal users), and Moxie has attacked third-party software over trademark issues, too. Any Signal fork is likely to be DoA, thanks to Moxie's deliberate actions.

Re: Signal Adds Cryptocurrency Support

#89
post #40

Could somebody elaborate the animosity towards being able to pay in Signal, or and perhaps also the animosity towards Signal itself? I use it, seems like an e2ee and uncluttered messaging app that just works.

Well it doesn't 'just work' on all platforms or contexts. That's why it's a bit annoying for them to spend dev time on stuff like this, especially when they could have used whatever pre-existing/established coin.

Re: Signal Adds Cryptocurrency Support

#90
post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

AFAIK crypto is the only way to get private and secure payments. Any other payment mechanism wouldn't fit the ethos of Signal.

What I meant was that Signal can solicit payments as part of their mission. Either through donations, or by selling access to more features. There's no need to involve financing through the use of the product itself, any proceeds of which will not go to Signal anyway.

Signal doesn't sell paid features, Signal is adding a payment platform. So future apps and/or users can exchange money/crypto.
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