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Bruce Perens: On Non-Judicical Punishment of Individuals

perens.com

41–50 of 227 posts

Re: Bruce Perens: On Non-Judicical Punishment of Individuals

#41
post #4

Richard Stallman will be punished until the day he dies. And then they will vandalize his grave. All I can do is to try not to commit crimes [1] myself, lest I be similarly removed from employment, stripped of accolade, and banished forever. [1] I'm LGBT and very open and inclusive with everyone (including democrats and republicans), but I seriously worry that eating meat might one day be frowned upon and punished. e…

People in leadership roles should be held to higher standards than normal employees.

Re: Bruce Perens: On Non-Judicical Punishment of Individuals

#42

How is a "You can't lead an organisation and be a role model if your views hurt a significant amount of people in the organisation" a non-judicial punishment? If you can't read or write you would also probably not lead a large organization, and it's not punishment. Can you rejoin if you have learned reading and writing? Yes. Stallman is not a janitor but in top management (I have the highest respect for janitors but…

His views are not relevant. Should focus on his ability to contribute and keep personal beliefs out of the picture.

Re: Bruce Perens: On Non-Judicical Punishment of Individuals

#43
There was another article about stallman 2 hours ago: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26707498

Direct link: https://stallmansupport.org/ (it debunks various attacks against him)

2nd throwaway because tor accounts have a limited number of posts it seems.

Re: Bruce Perens: On Non-Judicical Punishment of Individuals

#44

> Thus, they are bound by the Americans with Disability Act and other applicable law to make accommodations for a handicapped employee. Does ADA require an airline to employ a blind pilot? Besides allowing his service dog? This essay starts with reason and ends with a slapstick statement equivalent to Walmart being required to keep employing a greeter with (movie cliche type) Tourette’s. There is no defined end to th…

A blind pilot isn’t capable of doing the job of piloting.

Is an extremely obnoxious man capable of doing the job of a publicly visible board member?

Re: Bruce Perens: On Non-Judicical Punishment of Individuals

#45
post #10

It seems a copout to blame his behaviour on his Autism. Plenty of people on the spectrum go about daily life without making grandiose public statements about pedophiles or eating toe jam in public - even for an Autistic person it's obvious that this will cause a negative reaction.

For people who says they are all for inclusion and equality, they seem to be quite selective in the type of personalities that they allowed to be in their group.

[deleted]

Re: Bruce Perens: On Non-Judicical Punishment of Individuals

#46
Punishments should have limits, but the point of removing a toxic member of a team is not to punish the individual. If I hang out with a group of friends, and one of those friends repeatedly makes some of the rest of us uncomfortable, I will stop inviting that person to our gatherings. This is not meant as a rehabilitory or a punitive measure. It's simply a group of people who aren't comfortable with someone else's presence asking that person to leave.

Stallman was removed because many found his presence unacceptable to their continued participation. Having removed him, that remains the case.

In addition to being poorly reasoned, this article is also somewhat contradictory. First, it argues that shunning should be temporary because the shunned must be given a chance to prove that they have reformed their behavior. Then it argues that Mr. Stallman's behavior is clearly based in his handicap and accommodations must be made for it. These two arguments don't work together. If he can control his behavior, his handicap need not be accommodated. If he cannot, there is no point to reassessing whether he has reformed.

Re: Bruce Perens: On Non-Judicical Punishment of Individuals

#47
post #29
post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You clearly are not an expert on autism. The disease is a huge spectrum of different behaviors, from almost normal, to severe retardation. I've seen RMS in real life, he's borderline can't take care of himself, that's not being abusive.

I've met RMS in real life and talked to him on multiple occasions. He can absolutely take care of himself and it's a little insulting to RMS to say that he can't. (Who took care of him between when he left his job at MIT and when the FSF got enough funding to hire him an assistant, if he wasn't taking care of himself?)

Not everyone is fine all of the time, and autistic personalities can get high and lows. To me, he seem quite normal and a cool guy that likes make totally inappropriate jokes or comments (that makes them even more funny), but I'm a little autistic myself.

Re: Bruce Perens: On Non-Judicical Punishment of Individuals

#48

A well written piece by Perens, but his focus on Stallman's disability leaves the reader to reach the point on their own, which may be difficult for some (perhaps those with similar issues to Stallman). The point is that people (and corporations) should be more tolerant of the views of others. They are not required to agree, but they should not automatically push the "cancel" button. I don't agree with everything tha…

Can we not act like the Second World War and consequently Karl Popper’s “ The Open Society and Its Enemies” didn’t happen?

You cannot run a tolerant society without being intolerant to those that want to destroy it.

You are right, that there is too much intolerance in today’s society, but I don’t think that it’s the case here. I think Stallman’s public statements about child rape deserve all the shunning he got.

Re: Bruce Perens: On Non-Judicical Punishment of Individuals

#49

A well written piece by Perens, but his focus on Stallman's disability leaves the reader to reach the point on their own, which may be difficult for some (perhaps those with similar issues to Stallman). The point is that people (and corporations) should be more tolerant of the views of others. They are not required to agree, but they should not automatically push the "cancel" button. I don't agree with everything tha…

Replying to myself because the above was instantly modded to oblivion.

Is free speech dead? Are we back to the ways of Stalin, Khrushchev, and Mao? Should all non-conformant speech be cancelled? What will our future be like if that is the case?

Re: Bruce Perens: On Non-Judicical Punishment of Individuals

#50
post #29
post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You clearly are not an expert on autism. The disease is a huge spectrum of different behaviors, from almost normal, to severe retardation. I've seen RMS in real life, he's borderline can't take care of himself, that's not being abusive.

I've met RMS in real life and talked to him on multiple occasions. He can absolutely take care of himself and it's a little insulting to RMS to say that he can't. (Who took care of him between when he left his job at MIT and when the FSF got enough funding to hire him an assistant, if he wasn't taking care of himself?)

Gerry Sussman mostly
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