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FDA approves new ADHD drug for children

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Re: FDA approves new ADHD drug for children

#91

Post by Ancapistani »

runawaybottle wrote: post #52
lfowles wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One of the actual bullshit things about ADHD is that I often can't focus even on things I do like . Absolutely nothing convenient about that.

This happens after alcohol abuse too. If you abuse alcohol enough, you cannot enjoy stuff without alcohol. It fries your dopamine receptors, this is drugs 101. Your are not going to take speed every day for years and function normally, and you will literally need confirmation bias to make sense of that reality. Also, here is another weird tidbit from life. You might not like the stuff you used to like anymore but you…

> It fries your dopamine receptors, this is drugs 101.

Funny you should say that, as there is much research to say that ADHD is primarily a resistance to dopamine and serotonin. See: https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/evolutionary-psychia...

This is how Ritalin works, by slowing down the reputable of dopamine.

So, imagine the state of anhedonia you’re familiar with from long-term drug abuse - then imagine that is your base state.

Re: FDA approves new ADHD drug for children

#93

Post by thonos »

alea_iacta_est wrote: post #38
thonos wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you have resources and time to let your ADHD brain go free it can be fun, but it becomes a struggle when you try to be a working adult with normal job. I'm not even talking about 'not being able to concentrate' because that's easily fixed with medicine. nowadays But ADHD is so much more involved on the emotional and psychological level. My childhood was mostly 'driven by impulsivity', so having medicine available…

> My childhood was mostly 'driven by impulsivity' That's the definition of being a child. Do you think that a child is driven by long term planning or wisdom?

Haha of course not

But for example, I picked my next school based on where my elementary school friends went and insisted to my parents that this is where I wanted to be, despite it being a worse choice for my then-grades. And then a few years later again, I picked for my school path to be economics over math (what I actually wanted to do), because my friends picked it.

Or, I was convinced for a while I wanted to work in a hotel post-school for no reason, despite learning programming by myself and being a computer kid writing my own programs and websites. I even applied to hotel-related jobs constantly until my parents pushed me to go to software engineering instead.

So what I mean with 'driven by impulsivity' is that often important decisions aren't handled with reason, but with pure emotion and impulses. Most of the time that's fine when you're young, but there are still times when you want to use logic over impulses.

Re: FDA approves new ADHD drug for children

#94

Post by eyelidlessness »

eyelidlessness wrote: post #90
ZephyrBlu wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In what way are all these things related to ADHD? I've previously thought I might have ADHD to some degree (Never been diagnosed though) since pieces like that article felt somewhat familiar to me. I would say I can relate to most of your list, but they don't really seem to be caused by ADHD to me. Or maybe I do have ADHD and that's why I can relate. I have no clue.

They’re basically all related to having deficient or broken reward reactions, the primary emotional reaction to dopamine. Willpower is hard to achieve if you expect to be disappointed. Pretending is a social necessity to avoid disappointing others, and the rejection that you could expect from that. Failing to muster willpower or follow through manifests that disappointment. Emotions swing when the little burst of rew…

Apologies for the giant wall of text. I just sat here on my phone swiping back and forth relating how I’ve experienced each item and didn’t pay any attention to formatting or structure.

Re: FDA approves new ADHD drug for children

#95

Post by Daho0n »

PragmaticPulp wrote: post #6
nickysielicki wrote: post #2

The drug: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viloxazine tl;dr: It's an SNRI, like Effexor or Cymbalta.

> tl;dr: It's an SNRI, like Effexor or Cymbalta. The mechanism of action section specifically says that it did not block norepinephrine reuptake in the studied brains of rats (only in heart tissues) and that the serotonin reuptake inhibition was very weak. The mechanism of action is more complex, involving 5-HT2B antagonism and 5-HT2C agonism and some downstream upregulation of GABA-B in certain brain areas. It's lik…

This sounds very good until you actually read the fact that is or has been sold as an antidepressant.

Re: FDA approves new ADHD drug for children

#96

Post by rgifford »

falcolas wrote: post #87
rgifford wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think most of these kids just need a lot more personalized attention. I think medicating them is a convenient short term solution that will cost society more over the long term in alcohol dependency, heart issues, and other medical conditions related to the use of stimulants.

Do you think the same thing about children with MS who receive pain relievers? Or is it different when you can see the symptoms?

We're kind of talking in two threads and I wasn't able to directly reply in the other, so I'll repost this here:

Over prescription of pain relievers is widely regarded as what caused the opioid epidemic. Sedation causes lots of deaths every year. Back pain is highly avoidable with basic lifestyle changes. I don't know much about MS.

My grandma took a weight loss drug called Fen-Phen and had heart issues late in life because of it. It was a low-grade form of speed used by house wives in the 70s for appetite suppression and increased energy.

US history leans overly medicalized and drugged IMO.

Re: FDA approves new ADHD drug for children

#97

Post by eyelidlessness »

lfowles wrote: post #54
runawaybottle wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This happens after alcohol abuse too. If you abuse alcohol enough, you cannot enjoy stuff without alcohol. It fries your dopamine receptors, this is drugs 101. Your are not going to take speed every day for years and function normally, and you will literally need confirmation bias to make sense of that reality. Also, here is another weird tidbit from life. You might not like the stuff you used to like anymore but you…

This was a major symptom that led me to seek a diagnosis. I was never diagnosed/medicated for ADHD until I was 25.

This was a major contributor for me too. Also alcohol abuse as self medication which is extraordinarily common in undiagnosed adult ADHD cases.

Re: FDA approves new ADHD drug for children

#98

Post by dmitrygr »

falcolas wrote: post #82
lurquer wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You can’t come close to relating if you don’t have it. Really? How do you know that? I don’t think you can come close to relating to what a non-ADHD person knows or feels as you have ADHD.

Quite some time ago, I read a short story by Kurt Vonnegut that described an effort to “equalize” everyone. The protagonist had a different, exceptionally loud, nose played in his headphones at random intervals. It had the effect of interrupting his thought process completely, to lower his effective IQ. I’ve always thought it was a decent representation of how ADHD works. Hyperfocus is harder to simulate, since it re…

It is this one - one of my favourite short stories:

HARRISON BERGERON

http://www.tnellen.com/cybereng/harrison.html

Re: FDA approves new ADHD drug for children

#99

Post by eyelidlessness »

mhh__ wrote: post #64
lurquer wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You can’t come close to relating if you don’t have it. Really? How do you know that? I don’t think you can come close to relating to what a non-ADHD person knows or feels as you have ADHD.

You do grow up with them though. I'm pretty convinced that I have ADHD, will be seeing what I can do about it when the doctors are less stressed, one of the things that struck me recently is that almost everybody I meet causes me to think "wow, they're organised" - even to the point where someone who I know very well even has the piece of paper to prove he has ADHD is like a scheduling algorithm compared to me.

When you’re ready to go, if you’d welcome the advice: go read through the DSM criteria and think honestly about how it could describe your childhood self, and how it might reflect on your adult experience. The thing is written to diagnose kids. Being prepared to translate it was critical in getting my diagnosis.

Re: FDA approves new ADHD drug for children

#100

Post by Jarwain »

ZephyrBlu wrote: post #84
nerdbaggy wrote: post #17

Seems that lots of people only think ADHD people have a hard time paying attention. If it was that simple I would be so happy. Here are just a few of the things I struggle with. - Will power. People with ADHD struggle sooooo much with will power. It’s a constant struggle with everything in life and really wears you down. - Constantly putting on a fake front pretending you don’t have ADHD. - Rejection sensitivity - Fe…

In what way are all these things related to ADHD? I've previously thought I might have ADHD to some degree (Never been diagnosed though) since pieces like that article felt somewhat familiar to me. I would say I can relate to most of your list, but they don't really seem to be caused by ADHD to me. Or maybe I do have ADHD and that's why I can relate. I have no clue.

Most of the listed symptoms are characteristic of an executive function disorder, of which adhd is the most well known. Very few people have "perfect" executive function without drugs. In other words, it's pretty normal for most people to experience some form of executive dysfunction and it's usually something one learns to manage. Executive functioning is skill just like anything else.

From what I understand, ADHD and other executive function disorders are Defined by having extreme enough of an executive function deficit (relative to peers of a similar age and development) that it has a significant impact on their day-to-day life (because if it didn't, why would you be going to a psych to be diagnosed?). But just because it's relatable also doesn't inherently mean that you have ADHD.

If you think of executive function as being a spectrum, and executive function ability being a normal distribution, the line for adhd is some arbitrary point on that upslope.

Of course, there are people making the argument that phones and social media and the internet and instant gratification might be contributing to executive dysfunction, but this is the kind of thing that's really hard to measure against some objective scale.

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