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FDA approves new ADHD drug for children

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Re: FDA approves new ADHD drug for children

#71
post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's weird right, because the experience _is_ something everyone goes through but for adhd individuals it is more difficult in a way that's quantifiably describable but difficult to quantitatively convey

It’s called ‘inability to accept that you need to actually put more effort into things, and it’s not going to be fun’. Again, been there, done that. What is one of the classic bullshit things about it again, you can ‘hyperfocus’ on things you like but can’t on things you don’t like. Gosh. Yeah that’s everyone, and everyone sucks it up and finds a way to deal with it.

> It’s called ‘inability to accept that you need to actually put more effort into things, and it’s not going to be fun’.

It’s not, though. With ADHD, people are as likely to get stuck in hyperfocus in things that are not fun and that they actively dislike, and be unable to maintain focus on things that are fun and that they like. People that have bought into the that behavior reveals preference have trouble understanding this as it directly conflicts with that wordlview, and tend to view ADHD as a failure of willpower in which people refuse to “properly” deprioritize their own desires for what is socially appropriate, but that is very much not what it is about.

Re: FDA approves new ADHD drug for children

#72
post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s a real shit show is what it is. If you compare those side effects the ACTUAL side effects of stimulants in kids and adults with ADHD (for instance, it reduces drug dependency, addiction, hyperactivity in ADHD folks while having the opposite effect on those who do not have ADHD), it’s clear this should be unethical to prescribe for anyone stimulants would be effective on. The only reason it even really comes up i…

Please don't try to guess treatment outcomes based on binding affinities. > it’s clear this should be unethical to prescribe for anyone stimulants would be effective on. This is wrong in so many ways. Again, please don't try to guess outcomes based on binding affinities. For what it's worth, some of the non-stimulant ADHD medications such as Guanfacine are strikingly effective for ADHD when titrated properly, some ti…

Are there long term comparative studies? Any reference benchmarck?

Re: FDA approves new ADHD drug for children

#73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

ADHD isn’t a modern malady. It’s been around for centuries. Just under different names. Here’s a reference from the 400’s BC: He [Hippocrates] was known to have made at least one reference to some patients who could not keep their focus on any one thing for long and had exceptionally quick reactions to things around them. He thought the cause was an “overbalance of fire over water” and recommended a bland diet that i…

Most people I know with ADHD got taken to a doctor, diagnosed, and put on medication as a consequences of their grades. I'm sure this quirk in the distribution of human psychology has existed for a long time, I just question the sudden popularity in its medicalization.

Because we finally have a working medicinal solution that isn’t “whip their ass with a belt until they behave”?

There’s an estimated 5% of the population who have debilitating ADHD. The current diagnosis rates of 4% for children, and 2% for adults, says we haven’t gotten everyone yet.

Re: FDA approves new ADHD drug for children

#74
post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One of the actual bullshit things about ADHD is that I often can't focus even on things I do like . Absolutely nothing convenient about that.

This happens after alcohol abuse too. If you abuse alcohol enough, you cannot enjoy stuff without alcohol. It fries your dopamine receptors, this is drugs 101. Your are not going to take speed every day for years and function normally, and you will literally need confirmation bias to make sense of that reality. Also, here is another weird tidbit from life. You might not like the stuff you used to like anymore but you…

Just because you have intense experience with addiction doesn’t mean every other problem people have in life is addiction with a cheap disguise.

Re: FDA approves new ADHD drug for children

#75
post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s called ‘inability to accept that you need to actually put more effort into things, and it’s not going to be fun’. Again, been there, done that. What is one of the classic bullshit things about it again, you can ‘hyperfocus’ on things you like but can’t on things you don’t like. Gosh. Yeah that’s everyone, and everyone sucks it up and finds a way to deal with it.

One of the actual bullshit things about ADHD is that I often can't focus even on things I do like . Absolutely nothing convenient about that.

This so much.

I’ve been having such a hard time managing my symptoms because of burnout, and a long stretch of unemployment when I left my last job, and a determination to get a more healthy life set up that I haven’t been able to listen to music. I’m a musician, primarily for my own personal enjoyment, and I can’t even bear to hear a song. Because so many other things are jammed up in my brain.

Re: FDA approves new ADHD drug for children

#76
post #25

This is a bad idea. Good idea for parents who don’t want to spend time with their kids. When my son was 2, maybe 3, one of the best neurologist in my state diagnosed my son with mild ADHD. He was not talking either. If med was available, I sure would sign up and give it to him. I was simply “too busy” with work. Instead of playing with him after work, I got busy with other “projects”. I only got awakening up after my…

Oh please it is painfully obvious that it is non mutually exclusive.

Re: FDA approves new ADHD drug for children

#77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We have partially lizard brains that evolved for running distances to pack hunt. If your expectations are that we should all be able to sit for 8-10 hours a day from the time we're children, it's easy to say some percent of us have a defect. The defect -- to me -- doesn't seem to be that some percent of our lizard brains can't do that. It seems to be in our expectations.

Cool. Change society. The 5% of the population with ADHD will wait. But while we’re waiting, we’ll do what we need to in order to survive in the society we have, not the one we want.

I have lots of friends who've taken Ritalin and Adderall. I've noticed a much higher rate of alcohol dependency among them, I suspect as we age they'll also have a higher rate of heart issues. Many tell me they quickly increase their dose and drink to be able to sleep.

To me it seems like medicalizing social issues is a deal with the devil. There's always another issue and another drug to treat that issue.

Re: FDA approves new ADHD drug for children

#78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a great start. I’ll add some more: - Other common mental health issues like anxiety and depression. I experience both chronically, treating my ADHD is currently the only management I need, nothing else has ever worked. - Sensory sensitivity including overload, confusion, neurological disorders. Hyperacusis and auditory processing disorder are my main issues. I just learned this past weekend that tinnitus may…

Do lower reading comprehension, stunted long and short term memory, and a constantly wandering mind also factor in there? I was a precocious talker and reader, and in many ways a 'gifted' child, but I always struggled to comprehend reading material, or remain engaged with what a teacher was saying. These learning difficulties pretty much negated the value of any 'gift' I may have had. That said, anything related to c…

> Do lower reading comprehension, stunted long and short term memory, and a constantly wandering mind also factor in there?

Yes! These are even pretty common symptoms addressed in youth.

And the rest of your comment is pretty much the story of my life give or take a few degrees.

If these are still difficulties for you or if you ever find them to be again, I highly encourage learning more about how ADHD presents in adults. If nothing else you might learn more about how those electric brain meats work.

Re: FDA approves new ADHD drug for children

#79
post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's weird right, because the experience _is_ something everyone goes through but for adhd individuals it is more difficult in a way that's quantifiably describable but difficult to quantitatively convey

It’s called ‘inability to accept that you need to actually put more effort into things, and it’s not going to be fun’. Again, been there, done that. What is one of the classic bullshit things about it again, you can ‘hyperfocus’ on things you like but can’t on things you don’t like. Gosh. Yeah that’s everyone, and everyone sucks it up and finds a way to deal with it.

I have no problem with wanting to put effort into things despite drudgery or difficulty. My main problem tends to be that I sit down to do something, or think about how to do something, and a thought pops into my head that's tangentially related. I follow that thought, usually involving a Google search, and it leads to a third thought, then a fourth, and the next thing I know I've spent an hour Not doing what I'm trying to do. So I refocus, try thinking about what I'm trying to do and how to solve it, maybe make a bit of progress, another thought pops in, etc. I like to call this my Internal Distraction Loop.

This feels especially jarring when it's so easy to enter a hyperfocus/flow state and tackle a task for 4 hours straight on some tasks but on others I'm _constantly_ trying to pull myself back on track every 30m or so. It's doubly frustrating when it's the Same Task, where I've made a ton of progress one day, and the next day I get caught in a distraction loop. It's triply frustrating when it's something that I know should only take 30m tops if I could Just Focus but ends up taking me hours and hours. Quadruply frustrating when that expectation of "oh it'll take me forever" turns out to only actually take like 15m (and for some reason my expectations rarely adjust) but I'm digressing a bit.

Sure they're problems everyone deals with, and everyone finds a way to deal with it. But some people find it More Difficult to deal with. I find medication to help when it comes to controlling my attention. Or copious amounts of coffee. Sometimes it helps cut down on how frequently I enter my core distraction loop, or it helps me notice the loop earlier so I can abort.

Anyways, yes executive function is a skill everyone has to learn at some point in their life; these are problems Everybody encounters. But it's Harder for some people, the same way learning to read is harder for someone who's dyslexic or public speaking is harder for someone with a stutter.

And executive functioning disorders are frustratingly self-perpetuating; how do you put more effort into focusing/putting more effort into things if you have trouble Choosing to put more effort into things in the first place? It's recursive. Medication helps break the loop (but is often over prescribed or misdiagnosed, and imo should be a scarce or temporary measure; a crutch to help develop the right skills to fill one's executive functioning gaps, but that's a different discussion).

Re: FDA approves new ADHD drug for children

#80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most people I know with ADHD got taken to a doctor, diagnosed, and put on medication as a consequences of their grades. I'm sure this quirk in the distribution of human psychology has existed for a long time, I just question the sudden popularity in its medicalization.

Because we finally have a working medicinal solution that isn’t “whip their ass with a belt until they behave”? There’s an estimated 5% of the population who have debilitating ADHD. The current diagnosis rates of 4% for children, and 2% for adults, says we haven’t gotten everyone yet.

I think most of these kids just need a lot more personalized attention. I think medicating them is a convenient short term solution that will cost society more over the long term in alcohol dependency, heart issues, and other medical conditions related to the use of stimulants.
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