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FDA approves new ADHD drug for children

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Re: FDA approves new ADHD drug for children

#31

Post by falcolas »

thonos wrote: post #22
runawaybottle wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

None of you ever want to hear it, but everyone goes through this. It’s the human condition. I’m an addict, and I’ve just justified with Herculean levels of mental gymnastics to keep abusing drugs/alcohol. There’s nothing you can say to me, I will convince myself it’s fine. Edit: I spent most of my youth playing video games for 5+ hours daily. I had zero work ethic. It caught up to me and I worked hard to fix it, and…

> None of you ever want to hear it, but everyone goes through this. It’s the human condition. Comments like this make me angry because it shows how much of a disconnect there is with taking ADHD serious. It's like saying to a depressed person to "just don't be sad and focus on something fun". Sure everyone struggles, but imagine those struggles cranked up by 20x. You overthink EVERYTHING, you're driven by random impu…

Yeah, this honks me off too, something serious.

“Everyone goes through this.” Sure. Once a week. Maaaaybe once a day if they’re treading towards ADHD, but it’s not inhibiting to their lives.

But if you have ADHD: it’s closer to once a minute, sometimes even every ten seconds. A conversation that lasts more than 10-15 seconds? A struggle to follow. A minute, ten minutes, an hour? I’ve lost the tangent so many times I couldn’t count if I tried (you need short term memory to count…)

Re: FDA approves new ADHD drug for children

#32

Post by nerdbaggy »

runawaybottle wrote: post #27
thonos wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> None of you ever want to hear it, but everyone goes through this. It’s the human condition. Comments like this make me angry because it shows how much of a disconnect there is with taking ADHD serious. It's like saying to a depressed person to "just don't be sad and focus on something fun". Sure everyone struggles, but imagine those struggles cranked up by 20x. You overthink EVERYTHING, you're driven by random impu…

It’s all good. Been there done that, it helps pay the bills and get good grades. If you don’t overdo it who is to tell you anything is wrong. There’s absolutely no difference between the stuff you described and the stuff an average person with zero discipline or work ethic deals with. It‘a the slackers in high school who never studied and passed everything that can’t handle they spent 18 years not developing serious…

There is also brain differences between adhd vs non adhd people

Summary: https://www.woodburnpediatric.com/blog/adhd-brain-different-...

Paper: https://www.thelancet.com/pdfs/journals/lanpsy/PIIS2215-0366...

Re: FDA approves new ADHD drug for children

#33

Post by PragmaticPulp »

lazide wrote: post #15
PragmaticPulp wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> tl;dr: It's an SNRI, like Effexor or Cymbalta. The mechanism of action section specifically says that it did not block norepinephrine reuptake in the studied brains of rats (only in heart tissues) and that the serotonin reuptake inhibition was very weak. The mechanism of action is more complex, involving 5-HT2B antagonism and 5-HT2C agonism and some downstream upregulation of GABA-B in certain brain areas. It's lik…

It’s a real shit show is what it is. If you compare those side effects the ACTUAL side effects of stimulants in kids and adults with ADHD (for instance, it reduces drug dependency, addiction, hyperactivity in ADHD folks while having the opposite effect on those who do not have ADHD), it’s clear this should be unethical to prescribe for anyone stimulants would be effective on. The only reason it even really comes up i…

Please don't try to guess treatment outcomes based on binding affinities.

> it’s clear this should be unethical to prescribe for anyone stimulants would be effective on.

This is wrong in so many ways. Again, please don't try to guess outcomes based on binding affinities.

For what it's worth, some of the non-stimulant ADHD medications such as Guanfacine are strikingly effective for ADHD when titrated properly, some times even moreso than traditional stimulants. The challenge is that titration can take time and the effects are not immediately apparent from the first dose, whereas stimulant medication follows the opposite trajectory where the first dose is the most effective and subsequent dosing has reduced effects due to tolerance. Parents often mistake the instant response of stimulants for superior efficacy in treating ADHD, whereas instrumented tests show that medications like Guanfacine are actually quite good if the patient is given time to adapt.

Re: FDA approves new ADHD drug for children

#34

Post by falcolas »

runawaybottle wrote: post #30
Jarwain wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's weird right, because the experience _is_ something everyone goes through but for adhd individuals it is more difficult in a way that's quantifiably describable but difficult to quantitatively convey

It’s called ‘inability to accept that you need to actually put more effort into things, and it’s not going to be fun’. Again, been there, done that. What is one of the classic bullshit things about it again, you can ‘hyperfocus’ on things you like but can’t on things you don’t like. Gosh. Yeah that’s everyone, and everyone sucks it up and finds a way to deal with it.

Aah, yes, the “you’re just lazy” argument. Never heard that one before. Never had a belt taken to my ass because my parents thought I was just being lazy.

Fuck that noise. Seriously. It’s somehow more ignorant than the “just cheer up if you’re depressed” hot take.

Re: FDA approves new ADHD drug for children

#35

Post by JoBrad »

wdn wrote: post #25

This is a bad idea. Good idea for parents who don’t want to spend time with their kids. When my son was 2, maybe 3, one of the best neurologist in my state diagnosed my son with mild ADHD. He was not talking either. If med was available, I sure would sign up and give it to him. I was simply “too busy” with work. Instead of playing with him after work, I got busy with other “projects”. I only got awakening up after my…

While I’m glad that this addressed the issue for your family, it certainly doesn’t indicate that other children who struggle with ADHD have parents who are unwilling or unable to be involved with their life.

Re: FDA approves new ADHD drug for children

#36

Post by adolph »

rgifford wrote: post #29

ADHD, diabetes, depression, anxiety, heart disease, suicide and obesity are all labels for defects of human physiology that exist or come to exist from sitting and focusing on one thing (usually alone) for long periods of time. Labeling in this way has the funny consequence of taking onus off the societal arrangement that creates these conditions. I wonder, is this an active discussion in the medical community? The e…

ADHD is not a in the same class as “defects of human physiology that exist or come to exist from sitting and focusing on one thing (usually alone) for long periods of time.”

Here is a better definition:

ADHD represents the extreme end of the distribution of several highly correlated normal traits in the human population, just like intelligence. In this case, these are inattention (specifically distractibility, poor persistence or sustained attention), inhibition, and executive functioning (self-regulation). When the degree of deficits (symptoms) in these traits reaches a certain point where they lead to harm to the individual (impairment in major domains of life activities, increased risk for injury or death) then these deficits become a disorder. So the status of a “disorder" begins where harm or impairment begin in such cases of dimensional traits - in short, the environment kicks back creating adverse consequences for the individual at the extreme lower end of these trait dimensions (or higher end of symptoms).

From: http://www.russellbarkley.org/factsheets/WhatCausesADHD2017....

Russell A. Barkley, Ph.D., an internationally recognized authority on attention deficit hyperactivity disorder (ADHD or ADD) in children and adults who has dedicated his career to widely disseminating science-based information about ADHD.

http://www.russellbarkley.org/

Re: FDA approves new ADHD drug for children

#37

Post by thonos »

runawaybottle wrote: post #27
thonos wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> None of you ever want to hear it, but everyone goes through this. It’s the human condition. Comments like this make me angry because it shows how much of a disconnect there is with taking ADHD serious. It's like saying to a depressed person to "just don't be sad and focus on something fun". Sure everyone struggles, but imagine those struggles cranked up by 20x. You overthink EVERYTHING, you're driven by random impu…

It’s all good. Been there done that, it helps pay the bills and get good grades. If you don’t overdo it who is to tell you anything is wrong. There’s absolutely no difference between the stuff you described and the stuff an average person with zero discipline or work ethic deals with. It‘a the slackers in high school who never studied and passed everything that can’t handle they spent 18 years not developing serious…

Thanks for the advise, I'll just stop lying to myself about my non-neurotypical brain that I have since being a child [0]. Who knew it would be that easy to overcome by just trying harder.

https://linkinghub.elsevier.com/retrieve/pii/S22150366173004...

Re: FDA approves new ADHD drug for children

#38

Post by alea_iacta_est »

thonos wrote: post #18
lazide wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you overlap Elon Musks behavior (or a number of quite famous musicians) with ADHD diagnosis charts, you’re going to have a fun time. Like most things, we celebrate the high functioning folks and denigrate those who aren’t. Kids are also expected to fall in line and be easy to manage, and those that aren’t get medicated.

If you have resources and time to let your ADHD brain go free it can be fun, but it becomes a struggle when you try to be a working adult with normal job. I'm not even talking about 'not being able to concentrate' because that's easily fixed with medicine. nowadays But ADHD is so much more involved on the emotional and psychological level. My childhood was mostly 'driven by impulsivity', so having medicine available…

> My childhood was mostly 'driven by impulsivity'

That's the definition of being a child.

Do you think that a child is driven by long term planning or wisdom?

Re: FDA approves new ADHD drug for children

#39

Post by eyelidlessness »

nerdbaggy wrote: post #17

Seems that lots of people only think ADHD people have a hard time paying attention. If it was that simple I would be so happy. Here are just a few of the things I struggle with. - Will power. People with ADHD struggle sooooo much with will power. It’s a constant struggle with everything in life and really wears you down. - Constantly putting on a fake front pretending you don’t have ADHD. - Rejection sensitivity - Fe…

This is a great start. I’ll add some more:

- Other common mental health issues like anxiety and depression. I experience both chronically, treating my ADHD is currently the only management I need, nothing else has ever worked.

- Sensory sensitivity including overload, confusion, neurological disorders. Hyperacusis and auditory processing disorder are my main issues. I just learned this past weekend that tinnitus may also be correlated. Other people experience similar sensitivities with some or all other senses.

- Hyperfocus. Seems contradictory but it’s not, we can get stuck on things just as easily as we can’t get motivated.

- Higher than GP rate of overlap with ASD and OCD.

- Higher than GP rate of overlap with gender dysphoria.

- Higher than GP rate of overlap with dyslexia and other learning disabilities.

All of these are true for me, and my ADHD diagnosis has helped me better manage, identify, understand or recognize them all.

Also note to folks who think it’s all about attention: it’s typically diagnosed in children (who also have a higher overlap than GP of ODD diagnosis). The DSM criteria are written entirely for assessing youth, and addressed to observing parties who are likely parents/guardians, teachers and caregivers. They’re geared for “I’m having trouble managing this kid,” not “I’m having trouble managing my life”.

Re: FDA approves new ADHD drug for children

#40

Post by lurquer »

nerdbaggy wrote: post #20
runawaybottle wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

None of you ever want to hear it, but everyone goes through this. It’s the human condition. I’m an addict, and I’ve just justified with Herculean levels of mental gymnastics to keep abusing drugs/alcohol. There’s nothing you can say to me, I will convince myself it’s fine. Edit: I spent most of my youth playing video games for 5+ hours daily. I had zero work ethic. It caught up to me and I worked hard to fix it, and…

Spoken like somebody who doesn’t have ADHD. It sound stupid but it’s the truth. You can’t come close to relating if you don’t have it.

> You can’t come close to relating if you don’t have it.

Really?

How do you know that?

I don’t think you can come close to relating to what a non-ADHD person knows or feels as you have ADHD.

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