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Amazon illegally fired activist workers, Labor Board finds

nytimes.com

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Re: Amazon illegally fired activist workers, Labor Board finds

#301

Post by ncallaway »

rogerdickey wrote: post #299
Mountain_Skies wrote: post #265

This case is something to keep in mind anytime Amazon comments on any labor matter, be it minimum wage, visas, diversity, work conditions, contractors, anything at all. Amazon is not commenting on those issues with anything in mind other than its own interests.

Who said it’s a crime for businesses to keep their own interests in mind or even to weigh them heavily? Seems prudent

> Who said it’s a crime for businesses to keep their own interests in mind

Nobody? Certainly, not the person you're responding to. This comment _almost_ feels like a non-sequitor to me. Someone saying to "keep something in mind" is _not_ them calling it a crime.

Re: Amazon illegally fired activist workers, Labor Board finds

#302

Post by judge2020 »

rogerdickey wrote: post #299
Mountain_Skies wrote: post #265

This case is something to keep in mind anytime Amazon comments on any labor matter, be it minimum wage, visas, diversity, work conditions, contractors, anything at all. Amazon is not commenting on those issues with anything in mind other than its own interests.

Who said it’s a crime for businesses to keep their own interests in mind or even to weigh them heavily? Seems prudent

Some would argue that that shouldn't mean Amazon gets to impose conditions that cause a non-trivial amount of workers to be forced to do things like pee in bottles, or fight for their right to not endure such conditions (amongst other harsh conditions like extremely high quotas).

Re: Amazon illegally fired activist workers, Labor Board finds

#303

Post by ncallaway »

eplanit wrote: post #295
Mountain_Skies wrote: post #265

This case is something to keep in mind anytime Amazon comments on any labor matter, be it minimum wage, visas, diversity, work conditions, contractors, anything at all. Amazon is not commenting on those issues with anything in mind other than its own interests.

"Amazon is not commenting on those issues with anything in mind other than its own interests." Isn't that what any company should do?

You should keep it in mind when other company's make PR statements, yes.

I would like to think that a "good" company should also consider other factors like when they make a PR statement (things like: "is this statement a lie"?). I'd certainly have a hard time arguing that a company should lie in a PR statement, even if it appears that such a lie would be in their interests.

Re: Amazon illegally fired activist workers, Labor Board finds

#304

Post by ncallaway »

nerdponx wrote: post #61
lokar wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It could make it hard to recruit new Sr people and leaders in their fields. I would never consider working at Amazon.

Maybe some will balk, but not all. There is probably enough overlap between "talented devs and designers" and "people who think unions are bad and/or don't care" that it won't affect their hiring pipeline. That said, I think highly-paid tech contributors do have the most leverage out of any other labor market participant right now. The more of us that don't want to work for anti-union companies, the better.

> Maybe some will balk, but not all

Sure, that's fair. I guess it really depends on the proportions.

I personally used to work at Amazon a number of years ago. I enjoyed my time there, and if my current work circumstances ever changed would have considered going back there.

Based on what I've seen lately from them, though, I would never go back. In fact, as a customer I've discontinued Amazon prime and won't order from their retail site again. AWS has me a little more boxed in, but I'm going to slowly look for more ways to separate from them there, too, over time.

Re: Amazon illegally fired activist workers, Labor Board finds

#305

Post by SonOfKyuss »

knowaveragejoe wrote: post #289
yhoneycomb wrote: post #282

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Makes you wonder if THIS is what's behind all the pushes for diversity

Why do people think the promotion of diversity is part of some nefarious global plot?

Because of the well funded propaganda networks in the US that push that notion.

Re: Amazon illegally fired activist workers, Labor Board finds

#306

Post by asdfasgasdgasdg »

yhoneycomb wrote: post #282
ArkanExplorer wrote: post #272

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://www.theverge.com/2020/4/20/21228324/amazon-whole-foo... "Whole Foods, which is owned by Amazon, is using a heat map to track stores that may be at risk of unionization" "a “diversity index” represents the racial and ethnic diversity of every store. Stores at higher risk of unionizing have lower diversity" https://trak.in/tags/business/2020/10/31/h1b-visa-ban-google... In October 2020 Google, Amazon & 44 Tech…

Makes you wonder if THIS is what's behind all the pushes for diversity

As cynical as this take is, you aren't alone in thinking it. This has been a repeating theme among some Bernie Sanders/economic left folks. For example, the concept that the center uses racial politics against the economic left to defuse their efforts has been discussed a number of times on the Chapo Trap House podcast. I'm personally not sure whether I subscribe to this belief, but I can see how people might feel this way.

Re: Amazon illegally fired activist workers, Labor Board finds

#307

Post by saalweachter »

lasagnaphil wrote: post #196
dontreact wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, my friend is working on this https://unitworkers.com/

Is this tech really needed for union organization though? It seems much better to be using conventional chatrooms like Telegram/Signal for the best outreach among workers. And Telegram/Signal seems to be far more trustworthy of not leaking your stuff to the companies than some random startup, as a lot of people are already using it...

Honestly you also don't want your app to be something your employer can use the presence of on your phone as a signal that you are involved in union organizing, which is another win for a generic platform.

Re: Amazon illegally fired activist workers, Labor Board finds

#308

Post by DiggyJohnson »

knowaveragejoe wrote: post #289
yhoneycomb wrote: post #282

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Makes you wonder if THIS is what's behind all the pushes for diversity

Why do people think the promotion of diversity is part of some nefarious global plot?

I don’t think anyone is claiming that it is “part of some nefarious global plot” in the discrete, conspiratorial sense you are suggesting.

Re: Amazon illegally fired activist workers, Labor Board finds

#309

Post by kelnos »

rogerdickey wrote: post #299
Mountain_Skies wrote: post #265

This case is something to keep in mind anytime Amazon comments on any labor matter, be it minimum wage, visas, diversity, work conditions, contractors, anything at all. Amazon is not commenting on those issues with anything in mind other than its own interests.

Who said it’s a crime for businesses to keep their own interests in mind or even to weigh them heavily? Seems prudent

Nobody said it's a crime, but I really don't want to live in a world where the interests of corporate profits outweigh everything else.

We're already pretty far down that path; too far, IMO.

Re: Amazon illegally fired activist workers, Labor Board finds

#310

Post by modularform123 »

tekromancr wrote: post #129
sokoloff wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The more leverage you have as an individual, the less relevant a union is for you.

If you do have leverage, and you don't use said leverage to help those that don't; then you are a bastard. And having policies ensures that your company, at high levels is ONLY staffed with bastards because people who are not bastards won't want to work there. Granted, that might be exactly what Amazon et al are selecting for; but at some point, a company being anti-union will be a signal to prospective high-level em…

I will give up my life before I lick the boot of a union thug.
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