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The EU archived “Euromyths” printed in UK media (2018)

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Re: The EU archived “Euromyths” printed in UK media (2018)

#131

Post by slibhb »

orwin wrote: post #126
slibhb wrote: post #93

The differences here are over values not facts. Specific examples aside, the EU buys into the idea that you can harmonize society with the right laws. The Brits were never going to be okay with that. It's a continental idea and inimical to common law. This is a country where they don't have ids. They passed a law to create ids but then it was repealed and the ids were destroyed. You can read Notes from a Small Island…

Okay, so for "The disastrous decision to share a currency", it seems that this argument is coming a lot in exchanges i have, and always with the same kind of people: those that either don't know about economy at all (because, let's face it, its not really interesting except for nerds like me), or those at the dunning-Kruger peak in macroeconomy. You should read about ECU and ERM, and research speculative currency att…

I don't know a lot of economics (though I have opinions of course). I'm referencing economists like Joseph Stiglitz and Paul Krugman.

You are free to disagree but referencing "Dunning-Kruger" is just ad-hominem. I can link various things that "you should read" too.

Re: The EU archived “Euromyths” printed in UK media (2018)

#132

Post by Jonnax »

slibhb wrote: post #117
Jonnax wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So you're saying that it was incompatible British Values that caused the UK media to lie about what the EU was doing. So that list of 100+ lies printed by the UK Press was fine, as it was an effort to manipulate people to have a negative opinion of the EU. Since those good reasons weren't enough to get what the Brexiters wanted?

Clearly lying is not good. I don't have strong opinions about whether the linked list can be accurately described as lies. My strong opinion is that the differences here are about values not facts , and those differences are real.

"Pubs, darts – Commission plans to outlaws darts in Pubs, Jun 1993"

Ah right. So this isn't a true/false statement. But a statement of values.

Thanks for clearing that up

Re: The EU archived “Euromyths” printed in UK media (2018)

#133

Post by slibhb »

Jonnax wrote: post #132
slibhb wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Clearly lying is not good. I don't have strong opinions about whether the linked list can be accurately described as lies. My strong opinion is that the differences here are about values not facts , and those differences are real.

"Pubs, darts – Commission plans to outlaws darts in Pubs, Jun 1993" Ah right. So this isn't a true/false statement. But a statement of values. Thanks for clearing that up

If you want to go through that list, investigate every claim, and explain how some of them are completely made up, be my guest.

I doubt many of them are completely made up. I think most of them are exaggerations based on something. Almost all headlines fit that description.

My point is not so much that "no one lies, ever" but that lying is beside the point. The differences that lead people to prefer to leave the EU are not factual, they're questions of values. If you don't see that, fine, but you're missing something.

Re: The EU archived “Euromyths” printed in UK media (2018)

#134

Post by coldtea »

juki wrote: post #125
coldtea wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, CEN, an public official standards body recognized by the EU, and whose members are "all member states of the European Union": CEN is officially recognized as a European standards body by the European Union, European Free Trade Association and the United Kingdom; the other official European standards bodies are the European Committee for Electrotechnical Standardization (CENELEC) and the European Telecommunicatio…

You seem to be making the (rather common) mistake of confusing European organisations with EU institutions. CEN is not a part of the EU. It was founded to establish standards among European countries long before the EU even existed, and it has members outside the EU as well. The EU does indeed recognize it, as does the UK (and did long before the EU even existed), but the EU didn't create it and doesn't control it.

>but the EU didn't create it and doesn't control it.

Doesn't have to, just have to embrace and enforce its standards.

(Btw, I'm from the EU, thanks for the lecture on Europe vs the EU, who would have thought!).

Re: The EU archived “Euromyths” printed in UK media (2018)

#135

Post by Jonnax »

slibhb wrote: post #133
Jonnax wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Pubs, darts – Commission plans to outlaws darts in Pubs, Jun 1993" Ah right. So this isn't a true/false statement. But a statement of values. Thanks for clearing that up

If you want to go through that list, investigate every claim, and explain how some of them are completely made up, be my guest. I doubt many of them are completely made up. I think most of them are exaggerations based on something . Almost all headlines fit that description. My point is not so much that "no one lies, ever" but that lying is beside the point. The differences that lead people to prefer to leave the EU…

Right. So the EU is not allowed to create a site to inform their ministers to correct these lies.

Because the EU have to play by some rules you've made up.

Re: The EU archived “Euromyths” printed in UK media (2018)

#136

Post by slibhb »

Jonnax wrote: post #135
slibhb wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you want to go through that list, investigate every claim, and explain how some of them are completely made up, be my guest. I doubt many of them are completely made up. I think most of them are exaggerations based on something . Almost all headlines fit that description. My point is not so much that "no one lies, ever" but that lying is beside the point. The differences that lead people to prefer to leave the EU…

Right. So the EU is not allowed to create a site to inform their ministers to correct these lies. Because the EU have to play by some rules you've made up.

Quote where I said "the EU is not allowed to create a site".

Also, quote where I said "there's no reason to want to remain in the EU".

The hostility in all of your responses is, um, interesting.

Re: The EU archived “Euromyths” printed in UK media (2018)

#137

Post by TMWNN »

orwin wrote: post #126
slibhb wrote: post #93

The differences here are over values not facts. Specific examples aside, the EU buys into the idea that you can harmonize society with the right laws. The Brits were never going to be okay with that. It's a continental idea and inimical to common law. This is a country where they don't have ids. They passed a law to create ids but then it was repealed and the ids were destroyed. You can read Notes from a Small Island…

Okay, so for "The disastrous decision to share a currency", it seems that this argument is coming a lot in exchanges i have, and always with the same kind of people: those that either don't know about economy at all (because, let's face it, its not really interesting except for nerds like me), or those at the dunning-Kruger peak in macroeconomy. You should read about ECU and ERM, and research speculative currency att…

>Okay, so for "The disastrous decision to share a currency"

As slibhb said, feel free to claim that economists like Stiglitz and Krugman are demonstrating the Dunning-Kruger effect when they write that the Euro is a bad idea.

The very pro-EU Guardian [speculated in 2013](http://www.theguardian.com/business/economics-blog/2013/jun/...) that if Britain had joined the Euro:

* The mid-2000s British housing bubble, and its collapse in 2007, would have been even bigger.

* Britain would have had to ask the IMF, ECB, and EU for loans.

* The Tories would in 2010 have promised a referendum to leave the Euro and won a majority. Labour would have won fewer than 100 seats, and UKIP would have "made spectacular gains".

* The anti-Euro side would have won the referendum, and the currency would have collapsed.

* "after a deep and painful recession economic recovery began".

* "Britain would have destroyed the euro on departure, and would now be on the point of leaving the EU altogether. The idea that Farage might be the next prime minister would be quite credible."

Re: The EU archived “Euromyths” printed in UK media (2018)

#138

Post by JetSpiegel »

radicalbyte wrote: post #7
zepto wrote: post #2

It doesn’t seem to show which publications these were in. Some of these headlines only show up in this article itself, when I Google for them. Without knowing what the sources are and what the articles say, there is no way to make sense of this list.

I would hazard a guess: Murdoch-owned papers. Because having the most powerful papers in England owned and ran by a foreigner from the opposite side of the planet is good for British Sovereignty.

Murdoch is Australian, therefore a subject of the British Crown, no? Not a "foreigner" per-se.
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