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The UK Is Trying to Stop Facebook's End-to-End Encryption

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Re: The UK Is Trying to Stop Facebook's End-to-End Encryption

#21
post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

i assume in days of https, most of the history they would be able to obtain are only domain names, not specific URLs, right?

Hence the desire to backdoor all encryption to see the full juicy details. Also the reason DNS over HTTPS exists and is spreading.

Does DNS over HTTPS allow the dns provider to see beyond the domain name?

Re: The UK Is Trying to Stop Facebook's End-to-End Encryption

#22
post #5
post #3

"... and asking for stricter regulation of the technology" Like, stricter regulation of mathematics?

Right now, mass consumer use of technology for communication is predicated by: 1. There being a service provider that is a legal entity. 2. The service provider providing the client software. 3. The service provider gatekeeping to the social network that makes the system useful. 4. Consumers not generally being able or willing to interfere with their client end software to add E2E on top of what the service provider…

You can still communicate with end to end encryption even if they setup mitm. You just need to exchange keys and then encrypt/decrypt yourself. If this becomes a law someone will quickly come up with such an extra layer. It is going to be a cat and mouse game, people will have no privacy and criminals will always find a way, as you cannot regulate maths.

Re: The UK Is Trying to Stop Facebook's End-to-End Encryption

#23
They want to compromise entire country security, just to make it easy for LE. Problem is that I doubt it will help in any way because criminals will still be able to communicate with e2e if they will be encrypting traffic themselves and then disguise it as normal text etc. It will be a cat and mouse game. Not sure why they don't sack people coming with such stupid, totalitarian and abusive ideas.

Re: The UK Is Trying to Stop Facebook's End-to-End Encryption

#25
post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right now, mass consumer use of technology for communication is predicated by: 1. There being a service provider that is a legal entity. 2. The service provider providing the client software. 3. The service provider gatekeeping to the social network that makes the system useful. 4. Consumers not generally being able or willing to interfere with their client end software to add E2E on top of what the service provider…

You can still communicate with end to end encryption even if they setup mitm. You just need to exchange keys and then encrypt/decrypt yourself. If this becomes a law someone will quickly come up with such an extra layer. It is going to be a cat and mouse game, people will have no privacy and criminals will always find a way, as you cannot regulate maths.

> You can still communicate with end to end encryption even if they setup mitm.

I already considered this in my predicate: 4. Consumers not generally being able or willing to interfere with their client end software to add E2E on top of what the service provider does, even if that is technically feasible.

Re: The UK Is Trying to Stop Facebook's End-to-End Encryption

#26
post #14

It's always either "Think of the children!" or "X will only be used to investigate the most serious of crimes like terrorism, rape and murder" which shortly afterwards is then (quietly) forgotten about when something like browsing history etc. can be downloaded by basically anyone in government(s). Maybe there is a restriction snort where such an action requires a warrant but considering that "judges" and "courts" fo…

> In German there is a nice idiom for that kind of thought pattern: "Nach mir die Sintflut"

Interestingly this is originally a French saying by Louis XV, Après moi, le déluge [0]. From wiki:

> It is generally regarded as a nihilistic expression of indifference to whatever happens after one is gone, though it may also express a more literal forecasting of ruination. Its meaning is translated by Brewer in the forms "When I am dead the deluge may come for aught I care", and "Ruin, if you like, when we are dead and gone."

It looks like the German translation of the same idiom was popularised by Marx [1].

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apr%C3%A8s_moi,_le_d%C3%A9luge

[1] https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nach_uns_die_Sintflut

Re: The UK Is Trying to Stop Facebook's End-to-End Encryption

#27
post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can still communicate with end to end encryption even if they setup mitm. You just need to exchange keys and then encrypt/decrypt yourself. If this becomes a law someone will quickly come up with such an extra layer. It is going to be a cat and mouse game, people will have no privacy and criminals will always find a way, as you cannot regulate maths.

> You can still communicate with end to end encryption even if they setup mitm. I already considered this in my predicate: 4. Consumers not generally being able or willing to interfere with their client end software to add E2E on top of what the service provider does, even if that is technically feasible.

I am sorry, you're right. I wonder what would happen to someone and something that would make it easy for your own encryption on top.

Re: The UK Is Trying to Stop Facebook's End-to-End Encryption

#28
post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Getting a warrant to spy on your neighbours wife would be like robbing a bank and leaving a note for the cops. It's literally a crime done right in front of the police, with official records and signatures for you to be prosecuted. The Justice system has all sorts of power. A cop can arrest you, right now, for no reason at all - which is totally against the law, but he could do it, you'd have to file a redress and ho…

This all only works in theory. In reality police in the UK is mostly useless if you tried to report a crime. They won't touch anything unless it gets them PR points or you present all evidence, track the perpetrators and so on and still they may drop it because the judge wouldn't give them time so why bother. It's a problem that media don't talk about.

This is true with with minor crime. It's not true at all of violent crime, or serious cases; if you're knocked down by a drunk driver, the police absolutely are very good to you and do -- eventually -- get there. Minor theft? Expect less. Copyright infringement? Hope you are a big player, otherwise piss off...

Re: The UK Is Trying to Stop Facebook's End-to-End Encryption

#30
post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except if you have a root certificate, then you can MITM you heart away. Which govs probably have.

yes, but it'd be the ISPs storing the internet history

Backbones have the reputation of being filled with intercepting devices from various entities, including gov's own.
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