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Marwa Elselehdar: 'I was blamed for blocking the Suez Canal'

bbc.com

41–50 of 169 posts

Re: Marwa Elselehdar: 'I was blamed for blocking the Suez Canal'

#41
post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>it's not likely that the actual captain was responsible. It'll be interesting how it plays out, but the captain is ultimately responsible and can overrule the 'guide'. So the captain is not off the hook here.

good point. but when it comes to slow reaction times, if the guide is giving the wrong order, by the time the captain can counteract that it may be to late. but you are right. we'll just have to wait until we know more about what really happened

>we'll just have to wait until we know more about what really happened

No doubt. This is going to take years to sort out. The Egyption government has a lot of power here because they can simply bar Evergreen Marine from crossing the Suez and ostensibly destroy them as a business ... but then they wouldn't get anything either. Most likely it will be quietly settled in a way that all sides save face, especially if the appointed guides made a mistake.

Re: Marwa Elselehdar: 'I was blamed for blocking the Suez Canal'

#42
post #26

I agree, and we should be encouraging women into men-dominated fields across the board, starting with the ultra dangerous jobs like "deep sea welder" and "lumberjack". We shouldn't stop until women are subjected to the same risk of death on jobs as men are. [1] [1] https://www.smh.com.au/opinion/how-to-die-at-work-be-male-20...

Do you find your current discussion tactics result in anything other than an argument with those you are talking to?

I'm fairly sure that's the desired outcome for most of these types.

Re: Marwa Elselehdar: 'I was blamed for blocking the Suez Canal'

#43
post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>it's not likely that the actual captain was responsible. It'll be interesting how it plays out, but the captain is ultimately responsible and can overrule the 'guide'. So the captain is not off the hook here.

good point. but when it comes to slow reaction times, if the guide is giving the wrong order, by the time the captain can counteract that it may be to late. but you are right. we'll just have to wait until we know more about what really happened

Not sure if reaction time plays any role when talking about ship this size. It takes time for it to respond for any command, e.g. course change.

Re: Marwa Elselehdar: 'I was blamed for blocking the Suez Canal'

#44
post #26

I agree, and we should be encouraging women into men-dominated fields across the board, starting with the ultra dangerous jobs like "deep sea welder" and "lumberjack". We shouldn't stop until women are subjected to the same risk of death on jobs as men are. [1] [1] https://www.smh.com.au/opinion/how-to-die-at-work-be-male-20...

Do you find your current discussion tactics result in anything other than an argument with those you are talking to?

I'm guessing the argument is the goal.

Re: Marwa Elselehdar: 'I was blamed for blocking the Suez Canal'

#45
post #8

This happened because this time[0] the Media - strangely - kept the responsibles anonymous. This feeds conspiracy theories. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francesco_Schettino

Do you remember when a subreddit managed to frame someone innocent for the Boston marathon bombing? This kind of thing happens regardless of whether the media correctly identifies the person(s) responsible, especially if the scapegoat people run with fits into preexisting prejudices (e.g. nobody in the country questioned it when the German police blamed the murders of Turkish minority business owners on "probably the…

While you are being downvoted for exposing the obviouness of the subreddits accusing others (something I have no issue with).... But the real guilty parties are the mainstream media when they let storytelling enter their coverage like what we had when white Tim Mcveigh did the Oklahoma bombing and all the large media outlets like CNN, NY Times framed muslims for that. We saw the similar coverage of the German pilot who crashed Germanwings recently by the (white) media and how different it would have been if the pilot was not white.

The white media would have covered fascist France run by dictatorial Macron differently if it was say in Russia or China or Bolivia:

https://greenwald.substack.com/p/leading-french-civil-libert...

Re: Marwa Elselehdar: 'I was blamed for blocking the Suez Canal'

#47
post #4

That's pretty bad, but who was the real captain? It's the first time I see total silence about the crew in official sources. At least it is mentioned in some reputable sources (e.g. https://eu.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2021/04/01/suez-can... ) that the crew was Indian, but still not a single name.

The captain is pretty well-known internally. He had an similar incident on the Elbe before, damaging a small freighter, and was banned from the Elbe. They needed two weeks to free the ship. He is Taiwanese. There were jokes that he will now be banned from Suez also.

Re: Marwa Elselehdar: 'I was blamed for blocking the Suez Canal'

#48
post #3

Well, that was probably predictable. If the news coverage of her being the "first female ship's captain" happened near the same time as the Suez Canal incident, those two stories can easily be conflated into a "told you so" narrative to justify condescension towards women aspiring to be ship's captains. It doesn't matter whether the correlation is real because the narrative feeds into existing stereotypes and anyone…

Or, is just a "fun" joke that ties into stereotypes. "Haha, told you women couldn't drive, look at this one stopping global trade" and then it spirals out of control. Not sure we can or should read too much into it.

As in "Schrödinger’s douchebag"?

I too am only joking...

Re: Marwa Elselehdar: 'I was blamed for blocking the Suez Canal'

#49
post #3

Well, that was probably predictable. If the news coverage of her being the "first female ship's captain" happened near the same time as the Suez Canal incident, those two stories can easily be conflated into a "told you so" narrative to justify condescension towards women aspiring to be ship's captains. It doesn't matter whether the correlation is real because the narrative feeds into existing stereotypes and anyone…

Or, is just a "fun" joke that ties into stereotypes. "Haha, told you women couldn't drive, look at this one stopping global trade" and then it spirals out of control. Not sure we can or should read too much into it.

Who are “we”? Sure, for an average internet user the joke is nothing, but for people who are the butt of the joke this has series consequences

Re: Marwa Elselehdar: 'I was blamed for blocking the Suez Canal'

#50
post #26

I agree, and we should be encouraging women into men-dominated fields across the board, starting with the ultra dangerous jobs like "deep sea welder" and "lumberjack". We shouldn't stop until women are subjected to the same risk of death on jobs as men are. [1] [1] https://www.smh.com.au/opinion/how-to-die-at-work-be-male-20...

The irony when people use these "gotchas" whenever anyone talks about women entering jobs they've been previously denied or actively removed from (e.g. programming?) is that you're literally complaining about the same thing as feminists, just from the other end.

Yes, we should encourage women to take on ultra dangerous[0] jobs they're underrepresented in. We should also stop thinking the problem is a lack of encouragement. Women are harassed out of male dominated fields and men ae harassed out of female dominated fields (e.g. nurses, teachers, etc). Most of this harassment comes from men, but the harassment is bad regardless of who does it.

Men are more likely to commit suicide, yes, but also more likely to use more effective (and "manly") means and thus "succeed", so the difference vanishes once you look at attempts. Men are also far more reluctant to seek mental health care or even simply go to the doctor, which drastically shortens their lifespan.

This is what feminists[1] mean when they talk about toxic masculinity: shaming men for not being "manly" enough is part of it and it's literally killing men AND women. The "patriarchy" isn't a secret club men have access to, it's a cultural order that treats men as disposable and women as property while serving only a very small elite[2].

I fully acknowledge this comment is off-topic, but so is at least the comment it is replying to and all of its siblings. I just think if you can dunk on people looking for equal rights with a quick zinger, I can at least provide a retort.

[0] For a fun time look into the severe injury risk of cheerleading compared to football. Apparently there are already ultra dangerous jobs and past-times women dominate but that we _for some reason_ don't view as dangerous or "serious". That said, yes, definitely more female deep sea welders and lumberjacks. But maybe we could also spend some time making jobs safer across the board because there's nothing manly (or womanly?) about losing your limbs or life doing a job nobody wants for mediocre pay.

[1] While you're looking up things, it's worth trying to understand the difference between feminist theory and "feminism" as seen on TV or Buzzfeed. If you've ever complained about a piece of media you like being ruined by a greedy corporation that doesn't understand any of the source material and just wants to make a quick buck, you got this. No, Buzzfeed complaining about manspreading isn't furthering the feminist agenda, it's just generating outrage because it drives engagement and thus increases ad impressions. Feminism has remarkably little to do with individual misdoings or what is in your pants and more with historical power structures built on these things that still impact us today.

[2] And before you come to any wrong conclusions: even that tiny elite is ultimately limited by the hierarchy it exists within, so literally nobody is truly benefiting from patriarchy, yet we propagate it because we prefer the familiar confines over the uncertainty of abandoning this order.

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