I thought it was generally accepted that we should tolerate most things except intolerance.
Tolerance is not a moral precept
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Re: Tolerance is not a moral precept
#12Earlier quoted context omitted.
Its basic strategy. LGBT groups wanted tolerance in the 1970s, but now sue you out of business if you don't make a "transition-party cake". Same could be said for Muslims in Europe: they want tolerance now because their numbers are small, but when they get the majority, they might want to change a few things. https://www.usnews.com/news/politics/articles/2021-03-22/col...
No, we've been fighting for equality, not simple tolerance. And btw, the cake maker won that case in court. If my business openly discriminated against Christians, you bet your ass I'd get sued into oblivion.
If you were a devout Muslim baker and a Christian came in and ordered a hand-crafted cake with the message "Jesus is Lord and the one true king", you think you would be legally compelled to create it for them?
Re: Tolerance is not a moral precept
#13Earlier quoted context omitted.
No, we've been fighting for equality, not simple tolerance. And btw, the cake maker won that case in court. If my business openly discriminated against Christians, you bet your ass I'd get sued into oblivion.
If you were a devout Muslim baker and a Christian came in and ordered a hand-crafted cake with the message "Jesus is Lord and the one true king", you think you would be legally compelled to create it for them?
No, but read up on McDonald's v McDonald's. Welcome to America, lawsuits can bankrupt you even if you win
Re: Tolerance is not a moral precept
#14This is a victory-lap by the class of people who have been so successful specifically because they have hidden behind the virtue of tolerance long enough to enforce their agendas without democratic approval (abortion, mass immigration, pornography, etc.) and to relentlessly propagandize and retroactively manufacture consent for said agendas.
The irony is that these people continue pretending to be working class, when the working class is the last bastion of organic culture which they want to crush.
> [Tolerance] is an agreement to live in peace, not an agreement to be peaceful no matter the conduct of others. A peace treaty is not a suicide pact.
I agree. As I've stated before, the logical conclusion of tolerance-as-virtue is that nothing but tolerance is permitted; all other institutions must be hollowed out into vehicles of tolerance, and then the vehicle will be discarded. One can see the final stages of this with Christianity, and one can readily see its progress within Islam as well.
> The model of a peace treaty highlights another challenge which tolerance always faces: peace is not always possible, because sometimes people’s interests are fundamentally incompatible.
This is exactly the situation tolerance is for. Two factions with strong, incompatible views that need to work together for common benefit.
Re: Tolerance is not a moral precept
#15not sure why this article feels that a moral precept must be absolute.
even viewed in a lens of tolerance being absolute, a moral person must make tradeoffs. we have to choose whether to tolerate intolerance towards others or ourselves, or whether we must act against the immoral behavior. the article hinges around the assumption that if tolerance is a precept it must not have limits to that tolerance, but there is no such apparent truth to me. morality is rarely so straightforward.
I haven't much opinion about the alternative "peace treaty" stance, but it sets the stage, imagines the world, as less moral, more dangerous, more contested. to me, tolerance is in part an act of humility, of not taking oneself as superior, and part a belief in diversity, that we are better as a planet (or planet+) for having lots of wats, means, & views, that a rich pool is better than a concentrated one. the peace treaty stance suggests more combativeness among the realms than I think tolerance ought need rest upon.
Re: Tolerance is not a moral precept
#16Tolerance is no peace treaty, that's a bad analogy. There is no mutual accord between people before they tolerate each other. This is re-defining words in an attempt to do "continental philosophy", a bunch of hot air to justify claims, which happen to be the exact opposite of what the article is claiming... let's redefine tolerance so that "we" (the chosen members of this ideology) can practice intolerance against those we dislike without the risk of being seen as an intolerant asshole.
Toleration is the first step towards labeling others as "intolerables", such that you can then take actions on them without judgement.
Understanding, is better than tolerance.
Re: Tolerance is not a moral precept
#17Tolerance is the plea of the dissident. Once he has assumed control he no longer has need for it and those who opposed him will not be so lucky.
Please don't post generic ideological rhetoric to HN. It leads to generic ideological flamewars, which are boring because they're predictable and nasty.
https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&sor...
Re: Tolerance is not a moral precept
#18Tolerance is the plea of the dissident. Once he has assumed control he no longer has need for it and those who opposed him will not be so lucky.
this is the most totalitarian shit I've read in years
Please don't perpetuate flamewars on HN.
Re: Tolerance is not a moral precept
#19Earlier quoted context omitted.
this is the most totalitarian shit I've read in years
Its basic strategy. LGBT groups wanted tolerance in the 1970s, but now sue you out of business if you don't make a "transition-party cake". Same could be said for Muslims in Europe: they want tolerance now because their numbers are small, but when they get the majority, they might want to change a few things. https://www.usnews.com/news/politics/articles/2021-03-22/col...
Please don't take HN threads further into flamewar. Let alone religious flamewar, god help us.
Re: Tolerance is not a moral precept
#20Tolerance is the plea of the dissident. Once he has assumed control he no longer has need for it and those who opposed him will not be so lucky.
Please don't post generic ideological rhetoric to HN. It leads to generic ideological flamewars, which are boring because they're predictable and nasty. https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&sor... https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
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