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Who Owns the Nile?

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Re: Who Owns the Nile?

#91

Post by ilstormcloud »

herodoturtle wrote: post #87
ilstormcloud wrote: post #81

I have talked with a few Egyptians on the subject. Unfortunately most think a military solution would be simple and straightforward. "Egypt has hundreds of fighter jets. Ethiopia has 20, We can turn the dam into dust". They probably can. But then what? History is not over yet. Egypt thinks of Ethiopia as enemy state. A lot of Ethiopians believe Egypt supports every rebel group in Ethiopia. But Ethiopians still don't…

Insightful comment, thanks for sharing. For those that are interested, here is some more context on official cooperation between countries that surround (and are dependent on) the Nile: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nile_Basin_Initiative

Thanks for bringing up the Nile Basin Initiative. Unfortunately, and to the surprise of no one, Egypt has been doing its best to kill it.

Re: Who Owns the Nile?

#92

Post by imtringued »

vfclists wrote: post #16

Egypt is not a "proper" country. It is simply a string of settlements along the banks of Nile river and its delta. Don't let the large trapezoid shape fool you. Most of that is the result of a line on the ground drawn by colonialists. If you want see a country like Egypt look at the Gambia, another country drawn along the eponymous river wholly surrounded by Senegal, another product of colonial machinations.

You know, if the land near the nile is so valuable and the land far away from it is not, then why would you be jealous over it? No country can do anything with it.

Re: Who Owns the Nile?

#93

Post by ilstormcloud »

nullifidian wrote: post #89
ilstormcloud wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is stupid. If Ethiopia decides to hurt Egypt, it won't need to build a massive dam. Wasting water has never been too difficult. Egypt would do well to not create such an enemy at their water source.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethiopian_Air_Force https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Egyptian_Air_Force Egypt can just occupy them, install a puppet regime and then move on. They definitely have that capability.

Depressing. I'll call it like it is. This is an idiotic response that lacks common sense. It's so common in the pro Egypt camp.

Most of the inventory is filled with short range equipment. The only jets able to reach Ethiopia are the Rafales and the SU-35 which make up a minority. They're not enough. More importantly, wars are not won by equipment (though they help immensely).

I don't get why such reductive opinions are so common when this issue is discussed.

Re: Who Owns the Nile?

#94

Post by masoeg »

sremani wrote: post #6
baybal2 wrote: post #2

I know how it will work. Most likely nothing will happen. Egyptian regime is very fragile, and will not risk a foreign intervention while having to suppress monthly uprisings back home.

The crisis of lack of water is bigger, who ever bombs the shit out of Great Renaissance Dam is going to be popular in Egypt. Egypt more than one occasion came close to doing something like that. Long story short. Who ever has better military capabilities will own the Nile. Egypt can use Suez as another piece to get Europe to accept its bombing campaign.

i dont think boombing the dam is a popular thing in egypt

Re: Who Owns the Nile?

#95

Post by masoeg »

ilstormcloud wrote: post #81

I have talked with a few Egyptians on the subject. Unfortunately most think a military solution would be simple and straightforward. "Egypt has hundreds of fighter jets. Ethiopia has 20, We can turn the dam into dust". They probably can. But then what? History is not over yet. Egypt thinks of Ethiopia as enemy state. A lot of Ethiopians believe Egypt supports every rebel group in Ethiopia. But Ethiopians still don't…

| I have talked with a few Egyptians on the subject. Unfortunately most think a military solution would be simple and straightforward

Egyptian here .. i dont think most of Egyptian believe in the military solution and even our government Led by a military Experienced person doesn't believe in that

we have been in negotiations for multiple years and eventually will involve European Union or the US to make sure agreement is fair to both parties

Re: Who Owns the Nile?

#96

Post by [deleted] »

vfclists wrote: post #83

It is surprising how most of the responses here seem so sympathetic to Egypt whilst forgetting the Nile countries who have had less benefit from a river originating in their territories. The Black African countries have as much right to benefit from the river as Egypt and the idea that they must submit to some agreement created by the British who ignored the needs of Nile countries is simply absurd. If any people "ow…

[deleted]

Re: Who Owns the Nile?

#97

Post by danmaz74 »

vfclists wrote: post #83

It is surprising how most of the responses here seem so sympathetic to Egypt whilst forgetting the Nile countries who have had less benefit from a river originating in their territories. The Black African countries have as much right to benefit from the river as Egypt and the idea that they must submit to some agreement created by the British who ignored the needs of Nile countries is simply absurd. If any people "ow…

The water extracted in Libya is a non renewable resource, it's no not going to last.

Re: Who Owns the Nile?

#99

Post by nullifidian »

ilstormcloud wrote: post #93
nullifidian wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethiopian_Air_Force https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Egyptian_Air_Force Egypt can just occupy them, install a puppet regime and then move on. They definitely have that capability.

Depressing. I'll call it like it is. This is an idiotic response that lacks common sense. It's so common in the pro Egypt camp. Most of the inventory is filled with short range equipment. The only jets able to reach Ethiopia are the Rafales and the SU-35 which make up a minority. They're not enough. More importantly, wars are not won by equipment (though they help immensely). I don't get why such reductive opinions a…

Egypt and Sudan have signed a defense pact, and they are aligned on this issue. If and when push comes to shove I bet Egypt would use Sudan's air fields, and that would be more than enough range to bomb half the country(the half that has the river/lake) into oblivion with their 200+ F-16s. Also I don't sympathize with any side -- just made an observation that Ethiopia is very weak comparatively, and considering water is an existential issue for Egypt, may be they should be more realistic in their water related actions.

The only variable here that could stop Egypt and Sudan from taking "drastic measures" is the international response.

>wars are not won by equipment

Are you implying that Egyptians lack something in the morale or skill department compared to Ethopia?

>reductive opinions

Well, wars happen, and for lesser reasons.

>idiotic response that lacks common sense

Please be more civil.

Re: Who Owns the Nile?

#100

Post by ilstormcloud »

masoeg wrote: post #95
ilstormcloud wrote: post #81

I have talked with a few Egyptians on the subject. Unfortunately most think a military solution would be simple and straightforward. "Egypt has hundreds of fighter jets. Ethiopia has 20, We can turn the dam into dust". They probably can. But then what? History is not over yet. Egypt thinks of Ethiopia as enemy state. A lot of Ethiopians believe Egypt supports every rebel group in Ethiopia. But Ethiopians still don't…

| I have talked with a few Egyptians on the subject. Unfortunately most think a military solution would be simple and straightforward Egyptian here .. i dont think most of Egyptian believe in the military solution and even our government Led by a military Experienced person doesn't believe in that we have been in negotiations for multiple years and eventually will involve European Union or the US to make sure agreeme…

Glad to hear that. But I am pessimistic about reaching a deal both sides would consider fair. Right now the basin water is divided by Egypt(85%) and Sudan(15%) with Ethiopia and the other 8 or 9 Nile basin countries allocated 0. Egyptian negotiation tactic over the past decade has been aimed at forcing Ethiopia to ratify this water share. The recent comments by your leader about war if "Egypt's water" is reduced is indicative of that.

For the Ethiopian side(and the rest of the Nile basin countries), this is outrageously unfair. Most people here recognize the water is a lifeline for Egypt and are against reducing Egypt's share by a consequential amount. But Egyptian intent of holding onto the 85/

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