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Almost third of UK Covid hospital patients readmitted within four months

theguardian.com

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Re: Almost third of UK Covid hospital patients readmitted within four months

#161
post #102
post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'll just add my own experience. I had almost no symptoms, no cough, no taste loss, not even sniffles. Likely infection date 15th of February. PCR test on the 24th of February. No symptoms at that point. 2 days later, I started feeling more tired than usual. The next day I had a mild fever and was sweating more than usual when exercising. This lasted 3 days, after which I only felt the fatigue for another 5 days. No…

I now personally know over a dozen people (ranging from mid-20s up through upper 40s) who have had Covid-19. All had minor illness and are now fine. Which is not to say that others do not have lingering symptoms -- but if we're going to emphasize scary anecdotes, it seems like we should spend proportional time reporting the vastly larger number of anecdotes that are not scary, as well?

What about this? https://www.instagram.com/p/CMwwVxZMiBb/

Re: Almost third of UK Covid hospital patients readmitted within four months

#162
post #131
post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This may be unpopular to say, but anxiety could have caused some or all of these symptoms.

You don't die from anxiety.

Anxiety is one of the worst possible influences on cardiovascular health:

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/26027689/

Re: Almost third of UK Covid hospital patients readmitted within four months

#163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

you're also an island. there's a strong multiscalar correlation between being an island and having good covid outcomes. NZ, Taiwan, South Korea (not technically an island, but might as well be), Australia, Japan. And at subnational levels too: The best us state is Hawaii. The best city in the bay area is Alameda.

How does being an island help? Are America's covid problems primarily caused by infected Mexicans crossing the border? Do the islands you listed not have much air travel?

You can only stop it if you catch it early.

The chance of stopping it early increases exponentially, if there are fewer ways into your country from countries that are themselves exploding with the virus.

In Europe, all countries broke down eventually and all these cases are ultimately imported from crisis areas. Many were never caught.

Keeping borders open - in the EU sadly not something that could have been realistically changed, if ever - is the reason.

Look at the facts: NZ caught all cases early. Full stop. So did Germany - at the beginning. It worked in either case. But NZ also kept cases low by limiting travel. Germany did not do this - least of all because the EU literally sued Germany when it started (very recently) to lock borders.

Australia not only can limit travel easily, but is also huge and barely populated. When there was a significant outbreak, it was physically possible to cordon off the state in question.

In Europe, once the spread began, it was already present in every locality - since Europe is tiny and entire countries have higher population densities than Sidney or Melbourne! And, this is also important, there is significantly more travel of people and goods, and it is far less concentrated on a few areas. Many people in Europe go to work in a different country from where they live, every day. There are literally no borders where you could test people. It is being tried. It does very little. Look at the spread in areas bordering high incidence regions. The borders are as closed as EU laws allows. It simply does nothing.

This is it. If you closed borders, then you made it. If you did not, then nothing much helps except trying to reduce incidence rate such that hospitals do not collapse.

We all dreamed of containing non-regionalized outbreak clusters by contact tracing. In reality all health services, even the very best ones in the world, eventually got rolled. Some sooner, some later. Sometimes contact tracing worked up until the mutation showed up. But it never worked consistently, except with closed borders.

Which countries contained the spread while having a high density and without being an island? Vietnam. However, cross border traffic between Laos and China is either strictly controlled or not economically significant - in either case, Vietnam is also an example of a country that managed to lock down borders - even tourism - almost entirely.

Conclusion: Covid has to be geographically contained with maximum force. If that is not realistic, for example if your country has the density of a city, then you need to stop it from getting in in the first place.

And unsurprisingly, being an Island and not 100% dependent and interconnected with daily border-less traffic helps a lot. Being a huge country with less population density or other ways to cordon off locally also helps.

In Europe, several countries were doing fine. They had lockdowns, contained local spreads and did contact tracing. They did not do less than NZ or Australia - except they were still surrounded by dozens of other highly populated areas with entirely different policies, all with different timings. The result was the same everywhere - eventually.

So, theoretically the EU could have been saved, if border would have been closed off immediately after the first cases appeared in Italy. Despite the fact that people believed contact tracing was viable - an option that does not shatter the political and economic fabric of the region.

This post is already too long, but you can read up on the discussions at the time and the political, geographical, economical and demographic situation in the EU to convince yourself that the chance of early border closings was close to zero.

Re: Almost third of UK Covid hospital patients readmitted within four months

#164

Long Covid is real. I had a mild case back in August, but it took around 5 months to feel 'normal' again. Lots of inexplicable things: Minor heart palpitations, feeling of 'heaviness' behind my breastbone. When I exercised, even moderately like running a half mile, I would feel strangely exhausted for many hours later. All of this has gone away now, but I can easily see how someone who is hospitalized could have a re…

> feeling of 'heaviness' behind my breastbone. You may already be aware of this but there's an organ there called the thymus which is a core part of the immune system (especially in younger people) Seems to be a symptom with relatively little discussion even in medical journals but can confirm I also had it for months after a relatively mild case, tending to reemerge due to tiredness or exercise.

I think it could also be due to damaged heart tissue as there have been reports of covid having that affect on people.

Re: Almost third of UK Covid hospital patients readmitted within four months

#165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

you're also an island. there's a strong multiscalar correlation between being an island and having good covid outcomes. NZ, Taiwan, South Korea (not technically an island, but might as well be), Australia, Japan. And at subnational levels too: The best us state is Hawaii. The best city in the bay area is Alameda.

How does being an island help? Are America's covid problems primarily caused by infected Mexicans crossing the border? Do the islands you listed not have much air travel?

The average land traffic crossing US boarders in 2020 was: 681,750 incoming land travelers and 273,338 incoming privately owned vehicles.

The average for island nations like New Zealand was 0.

https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/typical-day-fy2019

Re: Almost third of UK Covid hospital patients readmitted within four months

#166
post #3

Link to the study: https://www.bmj.com/content/372/bmj.n693 From the study: > At baseline, individuals with covid-19 had a mean age of 64.5 (standard deviation 19.2) and 54.9% were men. Compared with the general population, individuals in hospital with covid-19 were more likely to be: male, aged 50 or more, living in a deprived area, a former smoker, and overweight or obese (table 1). Individuals with covid-19 were a…

I remember at the beginning of the pandemic, it seemed as though few current smokers were getting seriously ill, although former smokers were at high risk. Did anything come of that?

Re: Almost third of UK Covid hospital patients readmitted within four months

#167
post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't like the xenophobic tone of the parent, but you are incorrect. > This would have entailed no one working at grocery stores, no deliveries, no travel, no global trade. I just don't buy that this was ever plausible for however long people suggest: 3 weeks, 6 weeks whatever. The experiences of (at least) New Zealand and Australia are clear evidence it is absolutely possible, without the absurd extremes you are t…

They are islands though, even if large ones. I don't think there are any large connected landmass that has managed to successfully take a New Zealand/Taiwan. Also US has different states with different rules, but no ability to restrict travel between the states. And lots of rural areas that potentially had small covid pocket before it got diagnosed. I don't like the previous administration one bit, but this was a rea…

>They are islands though

This reads like Covid arrived in the US through uncontrolled land crossings from Canada or Mexico? I'm pretty sure like Australia and NZ, it came by land and sea mainly.

> Also US has different states with different rules, but no ability to restrict travel between the states

Also Australia never had seen states close borders before. Yet somehow each of the 6 states and 2 territories managed to get legislation passed to do this, get police mobilised, and just got community buy-in that was going to work.

Re: Almost third of UK Covid hospital patients readmitted within four months

#168
post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've seen some pushback that a lot of hard-to-diagnose chronic syndromes are now being deemed "long covid." My assumption is that at least some of this is happening as it's the trendiest disease of the moment. Not to say there aren't a lot of people with clear-cut long covid syndromes.

One unexpected long covid symptom: writing buggy code. https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2021/03/buffer-overruns-lice...

Interesting article, the whole landlord part was out of place but it does seem like he was unmotivated because those faults are not even tricky.

Re: Almost third of UK Covid hospital patients readmitted within four months

#169
post #80
post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> compared to the hell we've all had to endure for more than a year now Speak for yourself! My life was largely unchanged by covid beyond wearing a facial covering in public which I actually prefer. What a joy to not only walk into banks dressed like a bandit without getting arrested, but to be asked to do it and thanked for cooperating! This certainly hasn't been any sort of hell for me, but catching covid let alone…

Funny, my life even changed for the better in many ways... work from home is wonderful.

Legitimately, my finances are in such better shape than the were in March 2020, and I've been laid off twice and on unemployment for extended periods.

Living in US, NJ FWIW

Re: Almost third of UK Covid hospital patients readmitted within four months

#170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> but we're going to emphasize scary anecdotes, it seems like we should spend proportional time reporting the vastly larger number of anecdotes that are not scary, as well? I haven't backed up my personal data in years and nothing nasty has happened, despite all those catastrophic data-loss stories you read online. I'm all for proportional reporting time, but strangely, no one reports on stories like mine - it's most…

Similarly, I've been wearing my seatbelt my whole life and have never gotten into an accident while driving. My kid was placed on his back in the crib without any pillows or blankets, even though he hated it, but never once stopped breathing. I have health insurance but ... shit, there was that one time in high school where a kidney infection put me in the hospital and would've killed me had I not gone, was billed at…

Quite. Anecdata does have its place but only for the sample population (1).

I still hear people worrying about safety despite the fact that half the UK, a large part of the US and countless others have been jabbed. That's after the original trials. I can understand some people's reluctance wrt vaccination. Many countries have had examples of problematic vacc campaigns. In the UK the MMR jab had a major set back due to Andrew Wakefield's false article in the Lancet [1].

From what I gather the thrombosis risk from the Oxford/Astrazeneca jab is somewhat swamped by error bars and open to interpretation. However the risk from the pandemic is very real and demonstrably so. I had my jab last Tues and it was O/AZ but I wont ask anyone to extrapolate much from that!

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MMR_vaccine_and_autism

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