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Does LEED Certification Save Energy? Evidence from Federal Buildings

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Re: Does LEED Certification Save Energy? Evidence from Federal Buildings

#61

Post by wcunning »

baybal2 wrote: post #2

The biggest issue I see is that LEEDs allow for a building that looks like a big heat exchanger, and has zero heat insulation to certify for high power efficiency in a cold climate. Canada, and Toronto area had tons of LEEDs certed luxury condos being heated like no tomorrow in Winter. Things are even worse in Vancouver, but that's offset by milder weather. The opposite picture is there in hot climates. Building with…

Joseph Lstiburek talked about this(1) in talks going back to the early 2010s. He bitched about bike racks being worth a LEED point whereas good insulation wasn't really...

(1)https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rkfAcWpOYAA

Re: Does LEED Certification Save Energy? Evidence from Federal Buildings

#62

Post by throw0101a »

intrepidhero wrote: post #53
throw0101a wrote: post #16

The focus of buildings should be: 1. Keeping dry and bulk water out/away. 2. Being as air tight as possible.† 3. Controlling vapour. 4. Being well-insulated. * https://www.buildingscience.com/documents/insights/bsi-001-t... † Air is exchanged in a controlled fashioned: filtered for pollen and other things, and then tempered with an HRV/ERV. Buildings do not need to 'breathe': * https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CIcrXut…

The problem I have with this is if #1 ever fails, and lets be honest, it will eventually, then #2 means you'll get mold and its game over. Heat transfer mechanisms, in order of amount of heat moved typically follow: conduction, convection, and radiation and should be addressed in that order while not ignoring moisture content. Mitigation strategies should default to passive measures. Or at least that's my plan if I e…

The order of importance is not the order in which they are layered:

* https://www.buildingscience.com/documents/insights/bsi-001-t...

If you wish to argue against Joe Lstiburek, a PhD who has been doing building science for probably over thirty years (both academic research and field work/consulting), go right ahead.

He has taken failures into account because a good portion of his career has been studying / consulting on failures:

* https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rkfAcWpOYAA&t=25m26s

Re: Does LEED Certification Save Energy? Evidence from Federal Buildings

#63

Post by ishjoh »

macinjosh wrote: post #23

I once lived in a LEED certified apartment complex. Unfortunately, I do not recall the specifics of their certification. My hot water would never get hot enough. I realized the hot water heater had a device on it to limit how often heating occurred. I promptly disabled it and had normal hot water again. One of the other "green" aspects of the complex was that it only had compact car parking. However, the area I live…

> One of the other "green" aspects of the complex was that it only had compact car parking.

I think this is one of the things that as I get older gets more and more grating. This 'nudge' is supposed to encourage you to use and buy a smaller car, but instead of you as an individual selecting the car most suited for your needs they've decided that only compact cars should be driven. So now if you have a big family (which in today's age is only 3 kids), or you need your vehicle for work (hi work trucks), or a host of other reasons to have a bigger vehicle, they've intentionally made your life just a little bit worse, and they've done it intentionally.

Re: Does LEED Certification Save Energy? Evidence from Federal Buildings

#64

Post by evanlivingston »

throw0101a wrote: post #22
nraynaud wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Same in France, I'm buying a condo and looking into all this for the renovation, and everybody is screaming "insulation by the outside".

If you want to make sure things are built properly, look into the topic of "building science": * https://www.buildingscience.com/documents/insights/bsi-001-t... Matt Risinger, a general contractor in Austin, Texas, has a lot of good videos on the topics: * https://www.youtube.com/c/MattRisinger/videos Even if you can't use the same techniques that he does (and pay for some of the premium products), it may be possible…

Matt's videos are worth watching, but it's important to note most his videos are motivated by his sponsorships and it's often hard to parse out when he's shilling and when he's not.

Betters resources with real science can be found at

* https://www.energyvanguard.com/blog/

* https://www.greenbuildingadvisor.com/

Re: Does LEED Certification Save Energy? Evidence from Federal Buildings

#66

Post by will4274 »

gruez wrote: post #56
chrisabrams wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it possible that all of your neighbors in your building have their heater on? This is what happened to me in a building in NYC. It would actually get so warm in the winter I would have to crack the window open or I would get a nose bleed.

>or I would get a nose bleed. Are nose bleeds associated with high temperatures?

Yes. I'm not completely sure the mechanism, but I attended elementary school in a warm climate, at a school in which the hallways were exterior and only classrooms air conditioned. I reliably got nosebleeds on the three or four hottest days of th year in line for class.

Re: Does LEED Certification Save Energy? Evidence from Federal Buildings

#67

Post by makomk »

thescriptkiddie wrote: post #55
etimberg wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I live in an apartment in Toronto that is LEED certified. To be honest, it's not that great but for different reasons than you outlines. The insulation is too good and so the building is too warm all year round. My unit can easily be > 24C without any heating running even in winter.

Insulation doesn't simply make a building warmer inside, it keeps heat out just as well as it keeps heat in. If your apartment is too warm in the winter it is probably because you have too much sunlight coming through your windows, or because your downstairs neighbor lives in a sauna.

Keeping heat out is of somewhat limited use unless you have air conditioning, because there are a whole bunch of sources of heat (people, appliances, solar gain through the windows, etc) that are enough to make the inside of a well-insulated and well-sealed building warmer than the outside. Also, a lot of non-US countries strongly discourage aircon on residential buildings for environmental reasons; I know the UK certainly does and Canada is probably similar.

Re: Does LEED Certification Save Energy? Evidence from Federal Buildings

#68

Post by throw0101a »

evanlivingston wrote: post #64
throw0101a wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you want to make sure things are built properly, look into the topic of "building science": * https://www.buildingscience.com/documents/insights/bsi-001-t... Matt Risinger, a general contractor in Austin, Texas, has a lot of good videos on the topics: * https://www.youtube.com/c/MattRisinger/videos Even if you can't use the same techniques that he does (and pay for some of the premium products), it may be possible…

Matt's videos are worth watching, but it's important to note most his videos are motivated by his sponsorships and it's often hard to parse out when he's shilling and when he's not. Betters resources with real science can be found at * https://www.energyvanguard.com/blog/ * https://www.greenbuildingadvisor.com/

Just because he's sponsored does not necessarily mean he's wrong: he's been beating this drum for many years before the sponsorships came. Sort by date and check out the potato quality videos from long ago, and you'll see the same principles being talked about.

Though certainly, if you're going to do a build yourself, research any specific products to see if they meet your needs, functionally and monetarily.

* He tends to build on the higher end of things, and has clients that are willing to pay. Of course he's currently building his own new home, and doing things the way he's talked about.

* He's in a warm-humid climate (US Climate Zone 2). Plenty of things I wouldn't do exactly the same since I'm in Canada.

But Joe Lstiburek was born and raised in Canada, and lives in the north-east, and he's saying many of the same things when it comes to building science:

* https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_Lstiburek

Re: Does LEED Certification Save Energy? Evidence from Federal Buildings

#69

Post by evanlivingston »

throw0101a wrote: post #68
evanlivingston wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Matt's videos are worth watching, but it's important to note most his videos are motivated by his sponsorships and it's often hard to parse out when he's shilling and when he's not. Betters resources with real science can be found at * https://www.energyvanguard.com/blog/ * https://www.greenbuildingadvisor.com/

Just because he's sponsored does not necessarily mean he's wrong: he's been beating this drum for many years before the sponsorships came. Sort by date and check out the potato quality videos from long ago, and you'll see the same principles being talked about. Though certainly, if you're going to do a build yourself, research any specific products to see if they meet your needs, functionally and monetarily. * He ten…

Yah, I'm not arguing that Matt is saying incorrect things, I'm saying his videos need extra scrutiny because he is sometimes using his videos for advertising and gives less than accurate portrayals of certain products. It looks like one his more egregious videos has been removed wherein he's reviewing types of siding and has some pretty laughable "tests" that he recreates inconsistently in order to prove fiber cement siding is superior to all other siding.

Additionally, to my knowledge, Matt isn't originating any of these ideas, he's just implementing them.

I don't mean to be so hard on Matt, I excitedly watch almost every new video of his and I'm excited there are people out there making building science more accessible. I just wish he'd so a slightly better job differentiating between shilling and presenting information.

Re: Does LEED Certification Save Energy? Evidence from Federal Buildings

#70

Post by kbelder »

gruez wrote: post #56
chrisabrams wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it possible that all of your neighbors in your building have their heater on? This is what happened to me in a building in NYC. It would actually get so warm in the winter I would have to crack the window open or I would get a nose bleed.

>or I would get a nose bleed. Are nose bleeds associated with high temperatures?

I think dry air is a larger driver, but that often comes with excessive interior temperatures.
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