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Hit songwriters ask pop stars to stop taking credit for songs they didn't write

bbc.co.uk

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Re: Hit songwriters ask pop stars to stop taking credit for songs they didn't write

#331

Post by lumberingjack »

rgifford wrote: post #175

A friend of mine decided to pursue music production around the same time I started in software engineering. We're both 20 somethings. We swap war stories now and then. I get to hear about how he's working with his mentor to do vocal production on a track getting pitched for Maroon 5, The Chainsmokers, etc. Sometimes the tracks take -- the artist likes them and decides to move forward. Usually they don't and it's a lo…

I took a job recently client basically twisted my arm I didn't need to work. One of the guys on the job is a live country musician, a big one. They're not on tour right now and he doesn't just sit around he works so he's out laying tile doing whatever carpentry work he can during the covid lockdown with no live shows. He hates country absolutely can't stand it, but fell into the country crowd early in his career and now that's all he plays. So this guy's up there playing big huge amazing country shows hates every minute of it.

Re: Hit songwriters ask pop stars to stop taking credit for songs they didn't write

#332

Post by Agentlien »

throwaway1777 wrote: post #215
rgifford wrote: post #175

A friend of mine decided to pursue music production around the same time I started in software engineering. We're both 20 somethings. We swap war stories now and then. I get to hear about how he's working with his mentor to do vocal production on a track getting pitched for Maroon 5, The Chainsmokers, etc. Sometimes the tracks take -- the artist likes them and decides to move forward. Usually they don't and it's a lo…

I have a few friends in the business and they are basically all broke except for one. Music is like the game industry. Hits based and there are far more talented people pursuing it than there are hits. Being talented isn’t enough, you need to be well connected, good looking, lucky, etc. The internet has made it better than ever to carve out a niche and get a few thousand fans, but it’s still hard to get people to cho…

This sounds very much like my impression of the music industry but not my experience of the game industry.

Yes, starting your own indie studio means you'll probably not make it. But a lot of developers have steady jobs with decent pay at bigger studios.

Re: Hit songwriters ask pop stars to stop taking credit for songs they didn't write

#333

Post by HiroshiSan »

harrisonjackson wrote: post #136
gamblor956 wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Katy Perry found success as a songwriter before she found success as a singer, and has written songs for Britney Spears, Kelly Clarkson, Selena Gomez, and Nikki Minaj, among others. ( https://www.rollingstone.com/music/music-lists/katy-perry-wr... ) Most of her own songs are co-written in studio with her collaborators on the song (meaning the feat artist and the producers), with each collaborator pitching in or more…

I think they mean "Katy Perry" and "Ariana Grande" are fictional characters as the public knows them. They are characters played by two artists and supported by media/storytelling.

^ this.

I find the idea of being fed a story fascinating because a successful story feels more real than life itself and I'm not sure you can separate the two (life and the stories we tell ourselves). Once you can see it for what it is, that it's just a story, it breaks the illusion. But a really powerful story sucks you back in time and time again, and sometimes, you forget that you were being told a story in the first place.

And now after typing the above paragraph I sit wondering how many stories I currently believe are real, are just stories after all. Money being one of the most powerful.

Re: Hit songwriters ask pop stars to stop taking credit for songs they didn't write

#334

Post by Jasper_ »

offtop5 wrote: post #226
throwaway1777 wrote: post #215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have a few friends in the business and they are basically all broke except for one. Music is like the game industry. Hits based and there are far more talented people pursuing it than there are hits. Being talented isn’t enough, you need to be well connected, good looking, lucky, etc. The internet has made it better than ever to carve out a niche and get a few thousand fans, but it’s still hard to get people to cho…

The music industry is much worse in my opinion. If you spend half your life learning to program so you can make games, you can always give up at 38 and start working on boring enterprise software. If You're a 38-year-old self-taught musician you can't exactly walk into a company and get a job. I still make music as one of my main hobbies, but I've accepted that no one will ever know who I am, and I'll never make a si…

There's plenty of "working musicians" not in the industry: playing gigs in jazz clubs, at weddings. If you're a composer or a songwriter, you can find work in films and TV and commercials (lots of ad agency work to go around), or become an in-house composer at a stock music house, or another production staff, like a game studio!

If you try to find stardom, you won't succeed.

Re: Hit songwriters ask pop stars to stop taking credit for songs they didn't write

#335

Post by mannerheim »

WalterBright wrote: post #291
rgifford wrote: post #175

A friend of mine decided to pursue music production around the same time I started in software engineering. We're both 20 somethings. We swap war stories now and then. I get to hear about how he's working with his mentor to do vocal production on a track getting pitched for Maroon 5, The Chainsmokers, etc. Sometimes the tracks take -- the artist likes them and decides to move forward. Usually they don't and it's a lo…

> He moved to WA to dodge CA income tax WA is closing that loophole. They just passed a gigantic capital gains tax.

Where are the capital gains here?

Re: Hit songwriters ask pop stars to stop taking credit for songs they didn't write

#336

Post by kalleboo »

alpha_squared wrote: post #255
ljf wrote: post #245

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a Brit, I can work wherever I can find work (and legally work) around the world, earn a fortune and not pay any tax in the UK, /and/ keep my citizenship. I only would pay tax to the UK on income I earn here (which in itself leads to all kinds of strange and dodgy scenarios in terms of people avoiding paying taxes here)

This is ultimately political and comes down to perspective and opinion. As a citizen, you benefit from many things of your home country regardless of whether or not you reside there. Such as, for example, your home country's ability to exert pressure on the government of where you reside when you're unjustly arrested/detained. There's also access to the consulate of your home country and all services you have access…

> For Americans, for better or worse, its very large stick (the military) affords its citizens all sorts of benefits while traveling/living abroad

This is mostly a myth.

There are lots of examples of cases where people from less RAWR MILITARY countries (like... Sweden) got pulled out of risky situations before the Americans did. In some cases Americans simply have not gotten rescued at all and left to fend for themselves! And the US doesn't perform that service for free... if you get rescued they charge you tens of thousands.

Being able to be negotiated out of detainment has more to do with politics and trade, and the US has a lot of political enemies. The countries where the US military is a factor are countries you're not likely to want to move to and make a living in anyway.

Being able to travel to countries is also weaker as a US citizen, since many countries apply reciprocity, and the US often has stricter immigration controls.

Being American living abroad is mostly a demerit. You can't open bank accounts due to FATCA, you have to pay expensive specialized accountants due to foreign taxation, and in many cases people just don't like you due to your government. I can't think of any situations where being American is a pro over being an EU citizen.

Re: Hit songwriters ask pop stars to stop taking credit for songs they didn't write

#337

Post by alfiedotwtf »

Jasper_ wrote: post #334
offtop5 wrote: post #226

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The music industry is much worse in my opinion. If you spend half your life learning to program so you can make games, you can always give up at 38 and start working on boring enterprise software. If You're a 38-year-old self-taught musician you can't exactly walk into a company and get a job. I still make music as one of my main hobbies, but I've accepted that no one will ever know who I am, and I'll never make a si…

There's plenty of "working musicians" not in the industry: playing gigs in jazz clubs, at weddings. If you're a composer or a songwriter, you can find work in films and TV and commercials (lots of ad agency work to go around), or become an in-house composer at a stock music house, or another production staff, like a game studio! If you try to find stardom, you won't succeed.

I like this answer. There’s more musicians who aren’t well known, but doesn’t mean they’re out of work.

I have much respect for session musicians... probably the most talented type of musician

Re: Hit songwriters ask pop stars to stop taking credit for songs they didn't write

#338

Post by alfiedotwtf »

sorokod wrote: post #268
hammock wrote: post #253

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They kind of say: "look good, sound good." Having worked in this industry myself, is it definitely a talent to have good stage presence, good presence in front of a videocamera, photogenic and modeling skills. Not to mention charisma when dealing with radio and TV interviews, fanbase, etc. It's also a talent to sing well, to sing consistently, to be able to channel inflection and emotion on command in a studio or on…

But that was always the case. I have the (perhaps incorrect) impression that over time, pop performers perform someone else's materials more and more.

Yep. And to go to the extreme like Milli Vanilli, when they’re performing they’re not even the one’s actually singing!

Re: Hit songwriters ask pop stars to stop taking credit for songs they didn't write

#339

Post by WalterBright »

wombatmobile wrote: post #322
WalterBright wrote: post #295

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are a lot of rock singers whose talent isn't actually singing. Neil Young, for example. His songwriting and arrangements are so good one doesn't notice he doesn't have a good voice for singing.

> he doesn't have a good voice for singing. Not everyone agrees with that estimation Vocal Coach reacts to Neil Young - Old Man (Live) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ppSF6JpdaKQ Neil Young "Old Man" REACTION & ANALYSIS by Vocal Coach / Opera Singer https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=trE7YifD9Jc

That song is a masterpiece, and he sings it well. But that doesn't mean the tone of his voice is great. It's just such a great song that we transfer that to his tone. A singer is stuck with his tone, no amount of training and technique will change it.

Of course, it's my favorite NY song, too.

Re: Hit songwriters ask pop stars to stop taking credit for songs they didn't write

#340

Post by kalleboo »

shard wrote: post #249
kbenson wrote: post #232

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Emigrate from the US and you'll still be expected to pay US taxes on foreign income. That's because you still have U.S. citizenship. You can give that up and not be taxed, as I understand it. Also, it looks like there are provisions to give you exclusions on your foreign income,if you have any.[1] That seems sane to me, if you live their the whole year and that location is your tax base, then you can exclude all th…

> it looks like there are provisions to give you exclusions on your foreign income,if you have any The foreign income exclusion is not that high, especially if you are a mid career tech worker ($107,600 for 2020), and you will be double taxed on amounts above the exclusion. But at least you can skip California state taxes if you count as a nonresident.

Is that the salary for a mid-career tech worker in the US, or in Europe/Asia? Because tech salaries are a lot lower outside of the US.

Also many countries have double-taxation treaties to avoid the double taxation when you exceed $100k

I know a bunch of Americans abroad, none of them have to pay any tax to the US, but several of them have to pay specialist accountants to deal with the differences in taxation between the countries. It ends up being a tax on Americans that is not paid to the US but to accountants.

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