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Hit songwriters ask pop stars to stop taking credit for songs they didn't write

bbc.co.uk

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Re: Hit songwriters ask pop stars to stop taking credit for songs they didn't write

#291

Post by WalterBright »

rgifford wrote: post #175

A friend of mine decided to pursue music production around the same time I started in software engineering. We're both 20 somethings. We swap war stories now and then. I get to hear about how he's working with his mentor to do vocal production on a track getting pitched for Maroon 5, The Chainsmokers, etc. Sometimes the tracks take -- the artist likes them and decides to move forward. Usually they don't and it's a lo…

> He moved to WA to dodge CA income tax

WA is closing that loophole. They just passed a gigantic capital gains tax.

Re: Hit songwriters ask pop stars to stop taking credit for songs they didn't write

#292

Post by WalterBright »

philmcc wrote: post #279
sorokod wrote: post #268

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But that was always the case. I have the (perhaps incorrect) impression that over time, pop performers perform someone else's materials more and more.

It wasn't really always the case. If you scroll back, so to speak, a generation or so, the further and further you get, the less necessary it was to win the trifecta of being Attractive, A Dancer, and a Live Performer. Let alone songwriter. There's only so many people that are all 4 and you know all of them by name. You could be VERY plain looking, and unable to dance at all, and chart in in 1965.

Fred Astaire's original audition allegedly was noted as: "can act, can sing, can dance a little."

Re: Hit songwriters ask pop stars to stop taking credit for songs they didn't write

#293

Post by Johnny555 »

FooHentai wrote: post #271
alpha_squared wrote: post #255

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is ultimately political and comes down to perspective and opinion. As a citizen, you benefit from many things of your home country regardless of whether or not you reside there. Such as, for example, your home country's ability to exert pressure on the government of where you reside when you're unjustly arrested/detained. There's also access to the consulate of your home country and all services you have access…

There’s also the behaviour it incentivises - if you’ve moved abroad and intend to stay there long term, secure citizenship there and renounce your American citizenship to avoid double taxation. The USA isn’t exactly hurting for new citizens and it’s probably desirable to have expats incentivised to deliberately relinquish their passports. Mind you I’m looking at this from the perspective of here in New Zealand, where…

if you’ve moved abroad and intend to stay there long term, secure citizenship there and renounce your American citizenship to avoid double taxation

That should be "intend to stay there forever", since renouncing your USA citizenship is typically permanent, once you renounce citizenship, it's difficult or impossible to regain it.

Re: Hit songwriters ask pop stars to stop taking credit for songs they didn't write

#294

Post by hn_throwaway_99 »

handelaar wrote: post #121
hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the US a performer still receives nothing when the song is played on the radio, all the royalties go to the writers: https://soundcharts.com/blog/radio-royalties#why-songwriters...

No. This is a subtle difference but a very important one. In the US, the performance right on broadcast radio is not collected at all. The publishing rights are collected on. That's really not the same thing as "publishers take all the money".

Yes, what you've written about broadcast vs. publishing rights on the radio is correct, but what I wrote "In the US a performer still receives nothing when the song is played on the radio, all the royalties go to the writers" is still 100% correct (I made no mention about the source of the rights), so I'm not sure why you started your comment with "No."

Re: Hit songwriters ask pop stars to stop taking credit for songs they didn't write

#295

Post by WalterBright »

filmgirlcw wrote: post #263
dehrmann wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I always thought the artists make token edits to the songs so they can keep up the charade of writing their own songs for marketing reasons. Someone told me "Taylor Swift writes her own songs." Sure, but when you look at the songwriters on 1989, over half of them were at least co-written by the song writer with the most #1 hits after McCartney and Lennon.

Swift writes her own music. She works with collaborators and producers but she writes her own music. Dessner sent her instrumental tracks that she turned into folklore (writing to track), it was similar with Antonof. This isn’t a marketing charade, she’s literally a songwriter first. She has included song-writing voice memos that show the progression of how she wrote certain songs on 1989 and the documentary “Miss Am…

There are a lot of rock singers whose talent isn't actually singing. Neil Young, for example. His songwriting and arrangements are so good one doesn't notice he doesn't have a good voice for singing.

Re: Hit songwriters ask pop stars to stop taking credit for songs they didn't write

#296

Post by nemo44x »

Kaze404 wrote: post #122
nemo44x wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s all aesthetics to be sure but a lot of pop music doesn’t take risks. Song structures are formulaic as are chord progressions and the notes used for melodies. How many hit songs use the same I-V-vi-IV progression? It works is why but it isn’t interesting to a discerning listener. It seems like a lot of pop music is more like fashion than music. Image leads and after removing the stylistic facade you see the same…

That's fair criticism, but I don't think it makes pop music any less artistic. There's something to be said about music that goes beyond the listener's ears and also taps into fashion, make-up trends, viral dances and that kind of stuff. That's where the risk is, and while it's paid off in the past (like Lady Gaga, David Bowie, etc), there's also numerous cases where it didn't as much (Ava Max, Viktoria Modesta). I a…

It is what it is - it is popular for a reason. It doesn’t require effort from the listener and as you pointed out it lets people identify with a culture, etc. there’s a reason most people stop seeking out new music in their mid-20’s. Popular music is mainly a youth product which lets each cohort draw cultural boundaries from previous generations.

What’s great about modern info tech is it makes it easier to explore artists of your youth that you never knew about. You can get really deep which makes it feel like now music is still being made for you.

It isn’t like there aren’t infinite other styles for people that want it. Jazz is a great example of “musicians music” - lots of interesting ideas get explored there and dissonance is used which you rarely find in pop.

They actually have software that helps crank out hits nowadays. It’s an interesting time to be a songwriter in Nashville.

Re: Hit songwriters ask pop stars to stop taking credit for songs they didn't write

#297

Post by aspaceman »

sorokod wrote: post #268
hammock wrote: post #253

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They kind of say: "look good, sound good." Having worked in this industry myself, is it definitely a talent to have good stage presence, good presence in front of a videocamera, photogenic and modeling skills. Not to mention charisma when dealing with radio and TV interviews, fanbase, etc. It's also a talent to sing well, to sing consistently, to be able to channel inflection and emotion on command in a studio or on…

But that was always the case. I have the (perhaps incorrect) impression that over time, pop performers perform someone else's materials more and more.

I would argue that it has waxed and waned. 50s most music was written by a composer. Have a songwriter behind a big name like Frank Sinatra. 60s has a surge of bands producing their own music in a smallish crew (Beatles, Beach Boys). But then arena rock was tightly controlled by the industry, but then Nirvana and grunge got big.

Re: Hit songwriters ask pop stars to stop taking credit for songs they didn't write

#298

Post by globular-toast »

rgifford wrote: post #175

A friend of mine decided to pursue music production around the same time I started in software engineering. We're both 20 somethings. We swap war stories now and then. I get to hear about how he's working with his mentor to do vocal production on a track getting pitched for Maroon 5, The Chainsmokers, etc. Sometimes the tracks take -- the artist likes them and decides to move forward. Usually they don't and it's a lo…

> A single track will have 50 names on it between writing, production, studio performance, etc.

This is something I've noticed more and more lately. The list of credits on everything is huge. I happened to see an episode of Family Guy the other day. I haven't regularly watched it for years, but noticed on this one there were literally minutes of credits at the beginning. It went on and on and on. I don't know why this is or what it means, but it's interesting.

> I'm consistently shocked when talking with my friend just how little music matters in the music industry. The people who make the most look good, sound good, and hell they're crazy talented. But they aren't the people who've written the lyrics or the melodies that define our culture. We probably can't name those people.

I don't think this is a new phenomenon by any means. I was reading the other day about The Beatles and how, when they became big in the USA, the professional songwriters of the time were worried because these guys wrote their own songs. Apparently it was almost unheard of at the time.

Re: Hit songwriters ask pop stars to stop taking credit for songs they didn't write

#299

Post by globular-toast »

oytis wrote: post #95
analog31 wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Indeed, and it goes back before Elvis. Screwing popular songwriters of their royalties has been a fixture of the music business since time immoral. From what I've read, Jelly Roll Morton's publisher added his own lyrics to Morton's instrumental tunes, to get a cut of the royalties. And it goes back before the recording industry. Before the phonograph, the "music business" was sheet music, there were "stars," and shee…

> since time immoral I like this typo.

Freudian slip maybe.

Re: Hit songwriters ask pop stars to stop taking credit for songs they didn't write

#300

Post by emodendroket »

spoonjim wrote: post #273
emodendroket wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, she’s a very successful country songwriter. Can’t see why she wouldn’t want the association.

What if it’s someone like Eminem?

Well you can search for her on Google and find her photo and tons of personal details. So I consider that unlikely.
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