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BBC: The cost of speaking up against China (Uyghurs)

bbc.com

101–110 of 132 posts

Re: BBC: The cost of speaking up against China (Uyghurs)

#101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do you know that? I'm genuinely curious

Look up almost any genocide or mass killing of the 20th century, even the late 20th century, and see how nobody outside the area gave a damn. Pre-WW2, you've got millions exterminated in the Congo Free State. The Ottoman Empire killed a million Armenians, 500,000 Greeks, 400,000 Assyrians. The British starved five million Indians to death in 1900 and two million Bengalis in 1943 and nobody gave a single solitary shit…

That's not entirely true.

Congo - when the atrocities came out, the king was forced to cede it to Belgium and the terror more or less stopped.

The Ottoman genocides were during the Great War, and even their allies ( Germany ) were concerned and issued proclamations, let alone their enemies ( Russia) which used it for recruitment.

Cambodia, Rwanda, Bosnia ended with wars/peacekeepers to topple the genocidal governments.

Re: BBC: The cost of speaking up against China (Uyghurs)

#102

[flagged]

Bit of a moot point there - I'm not sure that the world knew the extent of the Holocaust until camps were discovered during the war.

That's a common misconception.

Most of the world knew very well the Jews were getting murdered en masse and forcefully resettled ( many of them tried to escape and were refused asylum including in the US, and brought their stories). Some resistance movements also brought detailed information.

In 1943, the Allies had all the grim details of Auschwitz with the Pilecki report, which was written by a man who voluntarily went undercover there and then escaped to tell the story.

Re: BBC: The cost of speaking up against China (Uyghurs)

#103
post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> for example much of eastern Europe and Turkey has authoritarian rulers, also see all these censorship rules on twitter and faceboook Hungary is usually considered Central Europe, and they're the only ones i can think of besides Poland and Belarus. Maybe Serbia if you're being generous? That's far from "much of Eastern Europe ( there are 10 countries in the Balkans only).

Poland and Hungary are into this trend, so is Russia. These are the countries that host the majority of the people in the eastern part of Europe.

No, Hungary is in Central Europe, and has barely 10 million people, less than Romania at 20, Ukraine at 44.

Russia and Poland are indeed in Eastern Europe ( Russia partially), and Poland is indeed one of the biggest countries (37 million) in that part of Europe, but still has less inhabitants than the Balkans or Ukraine which certainly lack traditional autocratic governments.

Re: BBC: The cost of speaking up against China (Uyghurs)

#104
post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Poland and Hungary are into this trend, so is Russia. These are the countries that host the majority of the people in the eastern part of Europe.

No, Hungary is in Central Europe, and has barely 10 million people, less than Romania at 20, Ukraine at 44. Russia and Poland are indeed in Eastern Europe ( Russia partially), and Poland is indeed one of the biggest countries (37 million) in that part of Europe, but still has less inhabitants than the Balkans or Ukraine which certainly lack traditional autocratic governments.

the population of Russia is about 150 millions; I still think that Russia is part of Europe - in terms of its culture. Europe would have looked very different, if it weren't for the sacrifice of the Russian people during world war II. I think that would make up for any discrepancies.

Re: BBC: The cost of speaking up against China (Uyghurs)

#105
post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is actually an interesting question. The western countries are accusing China of fake genocide here, such as suppressing the Uyghur culture, their language, their food, their clothing, even their haircuts. But yet, H&M is a western brand, that sells jeans and T-shirt, which are western style clothes. So, if the Uyghurs are buying and wearing H&M clothes, instead of traditional Uyghur clothes, then they are in ef…

] The western countries are accusing China of fake genocide here, such as suppressing the Uyghur culture, their language, their food, their clothing, even their haircuts First of all, that's not a fake genocide. Forced cultural assimilation is still considered genocide. Second, the accusations are far more serious - concentration camps with various human rights abuses. That's in classic genocide territory, going as f…

> Forced cultural assimilation is still considered genocide.

Interesting point of view there. You sure you want to die on this hill?

Ok, let’s take that a step further.

In the Western countries, the United States, Canada, Australia, and Europe, they all force their immigrants to culturally assimilate. They do this by socially shaming the immigrants to adopt local names, and to not speak their own native language.

This is very prevalent in the white countries, where white people scream out: “Why don’t you speak English, and learn our culture!”

And in grade schools, the immigrants are mocked for being foreign.

And what does the government do about this? Nothing. They turn a blind eye. They let society handle the cultural genocide for them. I’m sorry, to use your phrase: the forced cultural assimilation.

This is their technique. And it allows them to have a plausible deniability to the situation.

Hell, even in the western countries, women are banned from wearing their burqas and facial veils.

And then, speaking of concentration camps, then don’t you agree that the United States had their own concentration camps when they arrested all the Japanese and threw them into the American Concentration Camps? This was only 70 years ago, so it’s not very far back in American history.

And furthermore, the United States and the other western countries, have their own techniques of genociding foreign culture. They do this through Hollywood, by casting Asian males as weirdly foreign, incompetent, and ignorant to the western ways. If this is not cultural genocide, per your own definition, then I don’t know what is.

Re: BBC: The cost of speaking up against China (Uyghurs)

#106
post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How did the Chinese fail to contain Covid, when serological tests showed that the virus was already present in the United States, in Seattle, back in December 2019? We still don’t know if it was in the United States earlier than this, because the American authorities refuse to investigate it. And it was already present in Europe, in Italy and Spain, in November 2019. So it was detected in Europe, after the fact, befo…

The virus most likely came from a bat via another animal, and that's highly unlikely to have happened in any of the countries you mentioned. And considering how China responded to the outbreak in Wuhan, it's absolutely certain they won't be forthcoming to disclose previous outbreaks if they find evidence about them ( like the US and some European countries did)

This is just conjecture. You have no evidence to support this.

And there are bats in Austin, Texas! You’re saying that the bats in Austin are clean, and disease free, while the bats in China, somehow only carry the virus?

Re: BBC: The cost of speaking up against China (Uyghurs)

#107
post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Comparing the prc to south africa makes as much sense as me saying war between the usa and china is no biggie because the usa quickly won in Granada.

The CCP are quite image conscious. All people are really asking is that they treat the Uighurs in a normal manner rather than trying to overthrow the CCP.

The CCp is not image conscious. That's honestly a totally asinine statement. That's like saying a mafia boss is image conscious because he threatens to murder anyone who speaks out about his crimes. And speak for yourself, I would like few political things more than to see the ccp overthrown and a bunch of apparatchiks hanged from the forbidden palace.

Re: BBC: The cost of speaking up against China (Uyghurs)

#108
post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The answer is war. It's really that simple. Do we want to bear that cost? Personally my answer is please God no, but that doesn't mean war isn't the only real option.

When was the last time the US fought another nation with nuclear weapons?

You're right of course the fact that something has never happened is strong evidence that something will never happen

Re: BBC: The cost of speaking up against China (Uyghurs)

#109
post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

] The western countries are accusing China of fake genocide here, such as suppressing the Uyghur culture, their language, their food, their clothing, even their haircuts First of all, that's not a fake genocide. Forced cultural assimilation is still considered genocide. Second, the accusations are far more serious - concentration camps with various human rights abuses. That's in classic genocide territory, going as f…

> Forced cultural assimilation is still considered genocide. Interesting point of view there. You sure you want to die on this hill? Ok, let’s take that a step further. In the Western countries, the United States, Canada, Australia, and Europe, they all force their immigrants to culturally assimilate. They do this by socially shaming the immigrants to adopt local names, and to not speak their own native language. Thi…

I'm not sure i want to engage it shitty whataboutism, but here it goes:

> Hell, even in the western countries, women are banned from wearing their burqas and facial veils.

It's not about assimilation of a foreign culture, it's about an unacceptable practice part of a foreign culture. Similar to genital mutilation which is accepted in some cultures and religions, but really shouldn't be and that's why it's forbidden in some places. You can practice your culture all you want, but you can't show everyone that you treat women like shit because your holy book said so 2 millennia ago.

> And then, speaking of concentration camps, then don’t you agree that the United States had their own concentration camps when they arrested all the Japanese and threw them into the American Concentration Camps? This was only 70 years ago, so it’s not very far back in American history.

There are people as stupid as this? Yes, Japanese internment in the US is the US putting people in concentration camp based on racial profiling, and was terrible, and probably illegal.

> This is very prevalent in the white countries, where white people scream out: “Why don’t you speak English, and learn our culture!”

Yes, white=English, it's obvious how basic your argument is.

> They do this by socially shaming the immigrants to adopt local names, and to not speak their own native language. > And in grade schools, the immigrants are mocked for being foreign.

You can't generalise like this. I'm living in "white" ( i fucking hate using that term, it's useless ) France, and it's really not the case.

> And furthermore, the United States and the other western countries, have their own techniques of genociding foreign culture. They do this through Hollywood, by casting Asian males as weirdly foreign, incompetent, and ignorant to the western ways. If this is not cultural genocide, per your own definition, then I don’t know what is.

Yes, every western country does Hollywood.

Re: BBC: The cost of speaking up against China (Uyghurs)

#110
post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We got South Africa to end apartheid without war. Let's try a boycott before getting all hot with a major nuclear power, right?

Comparing the prc to south africa makes as much sense as me saying war between the usa and china is no biggie because the usa quickly won in Granada.

Wat? If anything, China's ability to wage war (compared to SA) should make us more inclined to look for a cold/peaceful solution.
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