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BBC: The cost of speaking up against China (Uyghurs)

bbc.com

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Re: BBC: The cost of speaking up against China (Uyghurs)

#91

Post by MichaelMoser123 »

frongpik wrote: post #52

Tbh, the article doesn't tell anything unusual. CCP rules by fear and a necessary part of such systems are labor camps. They aren't 731/nazi level evil, but they are still fairly cruel.

i am afraid that they are the future: a significant part of the world is moving towards a more authoritarian model of government. (for example much of eastern Europe and Turkey has authoritarian rulers, also see all these censorship rules on twitter and faceboook). Maybe COVID is just a trigger that will cause a larger shift towards this abyss.

i personally have come to see cryptocurrencies as a means to escape this trend; here you have a tool that escapes that big machinery of government - never mind the electricity that is wasted along the way; i think that the altenative of a GULAG is much worse, in terms of trade-offs.

Re: BBC: The cost of speaking up against China (Uyghurs)

#92

Post by alkonaut »

boomboomsubban wrote: post #77
yumraj wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

It's very likely that economic sanctions will cause more harm to the Chinese than the harm done to the Uyghurs, and has a poor record of it's intended regime change. They are not a solution to a humanitarian crisis.

Economic sanctions should aim at the top of Chinese society. Magnitsky type sanctions on officials. Things like preventing every political official or wealthy businessman and their family from travel, going to western universities and all these things they are now used to (and which they wouldn’t be happy to lose).

Re: BBC: The cost of speaking up against China (Uyghurs)

#93

Post by MichaelMoser123 »

tammerk wrote: post #22
Klwohu wrote: post #12

Wow somebody came in and downvoted EVERYBODY in this thread. Five cent army, assemble!

> Five cent army, assemble! Quick link : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/50_Cent_Party They also flag posts to take down from the first page. Just look how many votes do this post have but barely on the first page, about to fall down.

you need some amount of points in order to downvote something on this site; only someone who has a stake in this community can yield his influence in order to downvote something here; this means that a lot of people here are subjects to the whims of the CPC.

Re: BBC: The cost of speaking up against China (Uyghurs)

#94

Post by arcanon »

Paradigma11 wrote: post #71
arcanon wrote: post #60

I wonder if the CCP will similarly re-educate the people of Taiwan. Dont they have a 9 year timeline to invade it? We should look for a new place to build our chip fabs...

No, you just found a new place to build your missile bases.

CCP has an entire branch of their military dedicated to missles! Also their shipyard build rate is exceeding US rightnow.

Re: BBC: The cost of speaking up against China (Uyghurs)

#95

Post by boomboomsubban »

alkonaut wrote: post #92
boomboomsubban wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's very likely that economic sanctions will cause more harm to the Chinese than the harm done to the Uyghurs, and has a poor record of it's intended regime change. They are not a solution to a humanitarian crisis.

Economic sanctions should aim at the top of Chinese society. Magnitsky type sanctions on officials. Things like preventing every political official or wealthy businessman and their family from travel, going to western universities and all these things they are now used to (and which they wouldn’t be happy to lose).

>Economic sanctions should aim at the top of Chinese society. Magnitsky type sanctions on officials.

Though an improvement over blanket sanctions, I suspect the rich would use it as an excuse to squeeze more out of the poor.

Additionally, I doubt the widespread abandonment of due process will truly make the people more friendly towards the West. You'd be targeting potentially millions, and any borderline case is a PR disaster. Imagine something like "mailman for forty years loses savings due to US attack."

Re: BBC: The cost of speaking up against China (Uyghurs)

#96

Post by sofixa »

MichaelMoser123 wrote: post #91
frongpik wrote: post #52

Tbh, the article doesn't tell anything unusual. CCP rules by fear and a necessary part of such systems are labor camps. They aren't 731/nazi level evil, but they are still fairly cruel.

i am afraid that they are the future: a significant part of the world is moving towards a more authoritarian model of government. (for example much of eastern Europe and Turkey has authoritarian rulers, also see all these censorship rules on twitter and faceboook). Maybe COVID is just a trigger that will cause a larger shift towards this abyss. i personally have come to see cryptocurrencies as a means to escape this…

> for example much of eastern Europe and Turkey has authoritarian rulers, also see all these censorship rules on twitter and faceboook

Hungary is usually considered Central Europe, and they're the only ones i can think of besides Poland and Belarus. Maybe Serbia if you're being generous?

That's far from "much of Eastern Europe ( there are 10 countries in the Balkans only).

Re: BBC: The cost of speaking up against China (Uyghurs)

#97

Post by MichaelMoser123 »

sofixa wrote: post #96
MichaelMoser123 wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

i am afraid that they are the future: a significant part of the world is moving towards a more authoritarian model of government. (for example much of eastern Europe and Turkey has authoritarian rulers, also see all these censorship rules on twitter and faceboook). Maybe COVID is just a trigger that will cause a larger shift towards this abyss. i personally have come to see cryptocurrencies as a means to escape this…

> for example much of eastern Europe and Turkey has authoritarian rulers, also see all these censorship rules on twitter and faceboook Hungary is usually considered Central Europe, and they're the only ones i can think of besides Poland and Belarus. Maybe Serbia if you're being generous? That's far from "much of Eastern Europe ( there are 10 countries in the Balkans only).

Poland and Hungary are into this trend, so is Russia. These are the countries that host the majority of the people in the eastern part of Europe.

Re: BBC: The cost of speaking up against China (Uyghurs)

#98

Post by sofixa »

blackrock wrote: post #73
Leary wrote: post #3

[flagged]

This is actually an interesting question. The western countries are accusing China of fake genocide here, such as suppressing the Uyghur culture, their language, their food, their clothing, even their haircuts. But yet, H&M is a western brand, that sells jeans and T-shirt, which are western style clothes. So, if the Uyghurs are buying and wearing H&M clothes, instead of traditional Uyghur clothes, then they are in ef…

] The western countries are accusing China of fake genocide here, such as suppressing the Uyghur culture, their language, their food, their clothing, even their haircuts

First of all, that's not a fake genocide. Forced cultural assimilation is still considered genocide.

Second, the accusations are far more serious - concentration camps with various human rights abuses. That's in classic genocide territory, going as far as the Herrero and Namaqua one.

> The funny thing also, is that one of the most famous Chinese actresses right now, is Dilraba Dilmurat, of the Uyghur ethnicity. And she is rising in stardom in the Chinese entertainment world.

> So if the Chinese are really trying to genocide the Uyghurs, then I highly doubt they’d let a Uyghur girl rise up too far in their entertainment culture.

> Can you imagine the Nazis promoting Jews in their films? That is the analogy here

The comparison isn't apt, because the Chinese don't claim Uyghurs are enemies of the people or w/e, just that their culture is terrorist. They're doing cultural assimilation, not mass extermination ( mostly). So a culturally assimilated actress is a perfect tool - see, they're not all bad, it's not in their blood/race!

Re: BBC: The cost of speaking up against China (Uyghurs)

#99

Post by sofixa »

blackrock wrote: post #72
guram11 wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> do it inside their own borders True, which is why the politicians(including us consumers) all turn our blind eyes on those victims inside China, if everything can be CONTAINED and remains INSIDE, however they FAILED(purposely or not) with COVID with this pandemic today everything has begin to change for better or worst

How did the Chinese fail to contain Covid, when serological tests showed that the virus was already present in the United States, in Seattle, back in December 2019? We still don’t know if it was in the United States earlier than this, because the American authorities refuse to investigate it. And it was already present in Europe, in Italy and Spain, in November 2019. So it was detected in Europe, after the fact, befo…

The virus most likely came from a bat via another animal, and that's highly unlikely to have happened in any of the countries you mentioned. And considering how China responded to the outbreak in Wuhan, it's absolutely certain they won't be forthcoming to disclose previous outbreaks if they find evidence about them ( like the US and some European countries did)

Re: BBC: The cost of speaking up against China (Uyghurs)

#100

Post by sofixa »

kwere wrote: post #9
causality0 wrote: post #5

[flagged]

it depended on the political spectrum. Initially everybody thougth internaments were some kind of forced labour schemes not an extermination plan (Europe still had some conservative views on human rigths of non whites at the time)

Well they were, it wasn't until 1942 that the first mass extermination camps were opened.

And it was not whites vs X, it was Aryans vs "subhuman" "races". Jews and Slavs are as white as "pure" Germans were, yet were considered subhuman and for extermination. And anti-Semitism in general was wildly popular in many parts of the world, including Europe and the US.

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