'Fake' Amazon workers defend company on Twitter • Hacker News Board

Re: 'Fake' Amazon workers defend company on Twitter

#371

Post by higerordermap » Wed, Mar 31, 2021, 2:49 AM UTC

impendia wrote: post #274

eeeeehhhhh wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I knew this was going to be posted. I've been thinking about this post for a decade now and I can't help but feel that, although it does reflect part of reality, the Gervais Principle is overly cynical in my opinion, and those who adopt the view will have it compounded by confirmation bias because it is partially true. The things described happen at toxic organizations but the author leaves no room for honest positiv…

> Where does that leave people like doctors who earnestly help their patients? Not a doctor, but a college professor. I love my job, take pride in it, and work hard at it. But I think of myself as working for my students, my collaborators, and my immediate colleagues. I pay little attention to my university as a whole, don't view it especially positively, haven't learned how to work its bureaucracy, and feel little l…

> I love my job, take pride in it, and work hard at it. But I think of myself as working for my students, my collaborators, and my immediate colleagues. I pay little attention to my university as a whole, don't view it especially positively, haven't learned how to work its bureaucracy, and feel little loyalty to the institution in general.

Thank you.

Re: 'Fake' Amazon workers defend company on Twitter

#372

Post by higerordermap » Wed, Mar 31, 2021, 2:54 AM UTC

TriNetra wrote: post #144

TheRealDunkirk wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For decades, I never thought people who kiss ass could have been serious. I was sure they were just cynically playing a game of advancement, and I despised them for it. What I've come to learn -- as disappointing as it is to me -- is that some people view this sort of thing as actual, legitimate opportunity, and are acting out of internal integrity. They don't see the hypocrisy of the power imbalance and how the comp…

You'll get millions of dollars invested in hype-and-nothing-really-to-show-for-it startups, or sold for hundreds of millions of dollars to a fortune 500 the product which is then phased out into a black whole in an year two from the buyer company's portfolio for the same reasons – having found a right connection at one of those three levels.

When all this bullshit actually works, I feel like there's something deeply wrong with the way modern bureaucracies are structured. If people have knowledge of field they are going to manage, this is less likely to happen.

As Joel Spolsky puts it, The cult of the MBA likes to believe that you can run organizations that do things that you don’t understand.

https://www.joelonsoftware.com/2006/06/16/my-first-billg-rev...

Re: 'Fake' Amazon workers defend company on Twitter

#373

Post by james4k » Wed, Mar 31, 2021, 3:00 AM UTC

Matticus_Rex wrote: post #368

james4k wrote: post #332

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"At will" is incredibly loaded. Employment is necessary for survival.

Employment at Amazon is not.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/At-will_employment#Definition

Re: 'Fake' Amazon workers defend company on Twitter

#374

Post by erhk » Wed, Mar 31, 2021, 3:16 AM UTC

eeeeehhhhh wrote: post #152

taormina wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://www.ribbonfarm.com/2009/10/07/the-gervais-principle-... This is a fantastic read.

I knew this was going to be posted. I've been thinking about this post for a decade now and I can't help but feel that, although it does reflect part of reality, the Gervais Principle is overly cynical in my opinion, and those who adopt the view will have it compounded by confirmation bias because it is partially true. The things described happen at toxic organizations but the author leaves no room for honest positiv…

>why would I adopt a philosophy that is so personally ruinous, demoralizing, and demotivating?

But why not be discontent with your reality? That's typically a sign to enact change and willingfully settling is an acceptance of how things are.

I think the problem lies in the way that capitalism treats companies and labour. Im not proposing we abolish capitalism but selling our time at a loss* to our employer doesn't "feel" good. Maybe you feel rewarded by your work and maybe you don't but you shouldn't destroy that feeling for the sake of complacency.

*Loss is possibly controversial, but an employer does seek to get more value out of an employee than they pay them.

Re: 'Fake' Amazon workers defend company on Twitter

#375

Post by heckerhut » Wed, Mar 31, 2021, 3:38 AM UTC

CobrastanJorji wrote: post #261

heckerhut wrote: post #232

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well you could’ve guessed 3 when reading 2.

No, I assumed they'd just store your "points" in a Users table in a relational database, plus a "transactions" table somewhere for history. Going with a blockchain solution is kind of crazy unless you're a blockchain company searching for a use case for your ridiculous--wait, what's this "Copyright © 2021 Block.one" bit at the bottom of their page?

You’ll reconsider once you see Twitter transitioning to such a model to circumvent regulation while still trying to capture value.

Re: 'Fake' Amazon workers defend company on Twitter

#376

Post by asveikau » Wed, Mar 31, 2021, 3:39 AM UTC

Judgmentality wrote: post #143

BitwiseFool wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be honest I don't want to go into JStor to search for studies that support my viewpoint and lob them at you in a game of citation tennis. But, I will distill my viewpoint down as best I can and leave it at this: People claim that critical thinking is not taught in schools because it's an easy claim to make when you perceive that so many other people are thinking uncritically. But, make a claim they disagree with a…

Sorry, but I strongly disagree with you. Allow me to respond with my own anecdote. I remember when I was dating a doctor being appalled by her complete inability to think through a problem, and I later learned medical school is basically mass memorization. I am obviously cherry picking medicine here, but if doctors aren't even taught that by the time they're practicing in the United States I think it's fair to say cr…

You base this on one doctor though. I have enough life experience to know that some doctors are better at their jobs than others. Maybe that's on the individual. Maybe some medical schools are better than others. I don't know what the explanation is. But I don't think you can extrapolate to "US doctors" in the plural.

Re: 'Fake' Amazon workers defend company on Twitter

#377

Post by mdorazio » Wed, Mar 31, 2021, 3:49 AM UTC

tgsovlerkhgsel wrote: post #250

snarf21 wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think they are making it illegal to go the bathroom they are just making it economically awful. If you miss X minutes in an hour, the whole hour doesn't count. You have to deliver X packages per hour everyday and one miss gets you written up, which can lead to firing. You seem to forget that a lot of these workers are unskilled and have few choices. Amazon may be paying $15/hr but they will work you like dogs…

What I don't get: WHY? Why is it better for Amazon to pay $15/hour and work you like dogs, vs. paying a much lower base rate but a bonus that makes it work out to $15/hour if you work yourself like a dog, and less if you're less effective? Is overhead so high that having more, cheaper but less effective workers doesn't work out?

At a guess...

- Paying $15/hour guarantees a steady supply of replacements for people quitting. Paying closer to minimum wage does not.

- At the scale and level of service demand of Amazon, it's probably better to have predictable headcount and per-employee performance than to try and play the fast food game where finding replacements might take weeks and even when you do, there's a good chance they'll be rather bad employees.

- It's probably a self-selection filter at this point. Pretty much everyone knows that working for a fulfillment center or DSP will be a shitty grind, but the pay is better than 90% of other unskilled jobs. People who can't handle the work will largely self-select out of even trying to work there in the first place, which saves Amazon a lot of time and cost.

Re: 'Fake' Amazon workers defend company on Twitter

#378

Post by [deleted] » Wed, Mar 31, 2021, 3:53 AM UTC

xmprt wrote: post #220

Loughla wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Getting paid less on the basis of your disability is generally considered to be disability discrimination in the US. I mean, I get what you're saying. I work in Disabilities quite a bit in my profession - and your view is generally correct. But there are literal, specific carve-outs for employers to pay people with disabilities less. https://www.dol.gov/agencies/whd/fact-sheets/39-14c-subminim... >Section 14(c) of t…

Laws usually aren't enforced as they are written. They are discovered in the courts. So even though those carveouts exist, whether they are applicable to this case or not is another question.

[deleted]

Re: 'Fake' Amazon workers defend company on Twitter

#379

Post by disabled » Wed, Mar 31, 2021, 3:54 AM UTC

Loughla wrote: post #279

disabled wrote: post #236

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Maybe I'm being too pedantic. But honestly, the number of people who genuinely believe that they are entitled to get literally whatever they want however they want it, regardless of any other factor, simply because of their disability is just astounding. As I said, it's life-threatening, and I can assure you that autonomic dysreflexia is one of the worst feelings that one can go through as a human. This issue is so…

>This is about common decency and basic human rights, not about entitlement. The fact that you are conflating the right to use restroom (a basic human need), at a consistent, non-excessive time interval (so that I do not experience a life-threatening state) to be some sort of entitlement is absolutely ridiculous. I really want to be clear. I am not doing that. I am genuinely not saying you are one of those people, an…

I’m sorry that you go through this. Next time, I will be more considerate when posting and tone it down. A lot of the issues you mention with young adults is a generational divide in the disabled community: the post-ADA generation and the pre-ADA generation.

The post-ADA people never had to truly fight for their rights against people that had true actual contempt against their existence as disabled human beings. On social media, it gets weird. The disabled identity online is completely incongruent with any semblance of a professional life, so if one wants to be successful in real life, it is best to run away from it if you are a disabled person. The disabled culture online scares normal and typical people, and for good reasons: people rage post about the indignities and injustices that they face as human beings on a regular basis. It makes normal people extremely uncomfortable at minimum.

I have self-respect so I don’t have social media accounts besides HN and a Reddit account, which I use to assist others. Of course I could post horrible injustices that have occurred to me. But what would that do? Nothing, besides cause outrage. That is the problem right there. The post-ADA generation often does not realize that there are people out there that have absolute contempt just for your existence as a human being, and to win, you have to fight a nasty battle, take the high road, and chances are, you will lose and lose again. Eventually you may win, but you will probably be dragged in the dirt during the whole process. There are consequences but taking risks and doing the right thing ultimately prevail.

Re: 'Fake' Amazon workers defend company on Twitter

#380

Post by krrrh » Wed, Mar 31, 2021, 3:57 AM UTC

egypturnash wrote: post #53

failrate wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I remember before common folk had internet, and there was still disinformation, misinformation, and plain bullshit.

Media literacy, marketing techniques, and propaganda techniques really need to be part of an elementary school education. But the US's education system is a giant underfunded mess, so good luck adding anything useful like that. I got a decent education in that sort of thing but it was entirely through my parents and stuff they got for me, Consumer Reports used to have a great kid's magazine that combined reviews of k…

If you go back through every major media development, from cheap novels to television, you can find moral panics and calls for formal education to help kids deal with it. It takes time, and it happens unevenly, but culture, social norms, and market pressures demanding new technology to fill the gaps left by the previous media, do catch up.

Any propaganda from more than a couple of decades ago seems immediately corny to kids.