Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

John Sullivan resign as executive director of the Free Software Foundation

social.librem.one

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

411–420 of 431 posts

Re: John Sullivan resign as executive director of the Free Software Foundation

#411

Post by Guthur »

pjc50 wrote: post #138
Guthur wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is who's deciding what is and isn't acceptable, RMS has been saying clearly derogatory statements about religion, the basis of most of our shared morality, for decades without a single peep from the virtue crowd. He says a few edgy this about something else and then the pitch forks are out. The problem is that I'm not sure we have much of a shared morality any more.

I'm not sure we ever did - or, to the extent that "we" did, it came down very hard on queer people and others.

And now it's unfortunately nearly impossible for us to have a discussion about what various religions did or did not say about topics like homosexuality.

Re: John Sullivan resign as executive director of the Free Software Foundation

#412

Post by ulisesrmzroche »

psychiatrist24 wrote: post #248
mhh__ wrote: post #201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I don't understand the EMACS virgin joke? The "joke" is that they are virgins and thus have to have said honour taken away from them. Bad taste aside, the issue is really that he specifically singles out women when reciting it. More detail: https://geekfeminism.wikia.org/wiki/EMACS_virgins_joke > I don't think asking women on dates is automatically "inappropriate behavior". There's a time and a place. Ultimately it…

"The "joke" is that they are virgins and thus have to have said honour taken away from them. " According to the article, the "virginity" of never having used EMACS before. I dunno - doesn't really move my "hate RMS" meter, tbh. Not that I think it is a joke that is necessary to be made, but not the end of the world, either. "Ultimately it's highly dependent on context, but if women are made uncomfortable by it in thi…

Why do you keep avoiding the details? It's public knowledge that women have been avoid Stallman's office for decades.

Re: John Sullivan resign as executive director of the Free Software Foundation

#413

Post by noirscape »

Roark66 wrote: post #348
noirscape wrote: post #312

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> For one he managed to keep the whole GNU project true to its values by being someone people listen on the subject. How many other people do you know you can guarantee not to "monetize" and sell out such a huge project to a highest bidder in the meantime? Quite a lot of them actually. In a sense, that is the big advantage that free software (but really the copyleft, since let's be honest that's Stallmans most meanin…

I'm not arguing to put him in charge of FSF nor that he is the right person to do PR. I'm arguing against "cancelling" him altogether because of few stupid opinions he held and few others that got blown out of proportion. Let me refer to them one by one. On pedophilia- his original opinion is not defensible. He eventually understood and admitted his error. Personally I believe the change is genuine. Can one blame som…

> As mentioned before I don't want him in the driving seat of FSF, but at the same time I don't think he should be cancelled from the Internet.

I think this is the only part of the reply worth focusing on; we're in agreement here. Stallman is free to be... Stallman really. He just shouldn't be in a position of power like he is right now with the FSF and GNU.

He should step down along with the rest of the board (who have shown themselves to be compromised in properly addressing issues involving him), but after that he's really free to do whatever. Hell, I wouldn't even object to putting him on a completely powerless "honor" position as Founder Emeritus or something.

Beyond that, there isn't much to argue. Nobody is saying that Stallman can't run stallman.org or represent himself, that's his own website and as long as he's not breaking the law by keeping it up, I see no grounds to object to that.

It's simply that his current presence in the FSF is actively hurting promotion and adoption rates of Free Software.

> I do think this whole current vendetta against the guy was created by one "activist" as a tool to make her famous/or to make her feel good.

Which one? The one that got him fired in 2019? That person isn't involved with the current controversy. The current controversy is purely because Stallman announced that he was back in the drivers seat of the FSF without even so much as an apology for the literal decades of all the other reasons that people think he's an asshat (beyond even the pedophile shit).

Re: John Sullivan resign as executive director of the Free Software Foundation

#414

Post by Denvercoder9 »

toomim wrote: post #385
Denvercoder9 wrote: post #297

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd argue that's more a problem with rule of law than anything freedom of speech related.

Freedom of speech is about law. The first ammendment says: "Congress shall make no law ... abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."

Note that that law says nothing about retaining your place in society.

Re: John Sullivan resign as executive director of the Free Software Foundation

#415

Post by user-the-name »

incrudible wrote: post #405
user-the-name wrote: post #401

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People have been telling him, over and over and over, for years, that his behaviour is not appropriate. He does little to nothing to change it.

It depends. I haven't heard of him licking anyone's arm again . He does change his mind if you can convince him. Otherwise, he is just going to be inappropriate in novel ways, because he can't tell what inappropriate is. Also, if he disagrees that something is inappropriate and you fail to make a convincing argument as to why it is, he will not change that behavior. Short of calling it a diagnosis, those are all hall…

Look. Pretty much everyone who has interacted with him keeps saying, over and over, that he is an absolutely awful person, that he is abusive, and that people keep telling him this and he keeps not doing anything whatsoever to change.

I am going to choose to believe all of those people, and I am going to choose not to insult everyone suffering from ASD by claiming that that is how a person with ASD acts.

Because that is a very awful thing to claim.

Re: John Sullivan resign as executive director of the Free Software Foundation

#416

Post by psychiatrist24 »

ulisesrmzroche wrote: post #412
psychiatrist24 wrote: post #248

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"The "joke" is that they are virgins and thus have to have said honour taken away from them. " According to the article, the "virginity" of never having used EMACS before. I dunno - doesn't really move my "hate RMS" meter, tbh. Not that I think it is a joke that is necessary to be made, but not the end of the world, either. "Ultimately it's highly dependent on context, but if women are made uncomfortable by it in thi…

Why do you keep avoiding the details? It's public knowledge that women have been avoid Stallman's office for decades.

"public knowledge" - I don't know about his exploits, and I am part of the public.

I repeatedly said I can not defend him because I don't know enough about him. But I can comment on the attacks that are being launched. I have looked into the alleged "support for paedophilia" and comments of "old guy hits on young women", for example.

Maybe if you want to kick out RMS, you should compile a good overview of the public knowledge, with as many verifiable claims as possible.

Re: John Sullivan resign as executive director of the Free Software Foundation

#417

Post by incrudible »

user-the-name wrote: post #415
incrudible wrote: post #405

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It depends. I haven't heard of him licking anyone's arm again . He does change his mind if you can convince him. Otherwise, he is just going to be inappropriate in novel ways, because he can't tell what inappropriate is. Also, if he disagrees that something is inappropriate and you fail to make a convincing argument as to why it is, he will not change that behavior. Short of calling it a diagnosis, those are all hall…

Look. Pretty much everyone who has interacted with him keeps saying, over and over, that he is an absolutely awful person, that he is abusive, and that people keep telling him this and he keeps not doing anything whatsoever to change. I am going to choose to believe all of those people, and I am going to choose not to insult everyone suffering from ASD by claiming that that is how a person with ASD acts. Because that…

> Pretty much everyone who has interacted with him keeps saying, over and over, that he is an absolutely awful person, that he is abusive, and that people keep telling him this and he keeps not doing anything whatsoever to change.

This is a brazenly dishonest statement. You obviously can't know "pretty much everyone" who has interacted with him, nor have all these people given a testimony for you to judge.

I don't personally like RMS either. I have no trouble believing that he is a difficult and sometimes hostile person to work with. What I do have a problem with is the rampant dishonesty exhibited by people who clearly have an agenda going for them, trying to take the man down. To that end, I demand "due process".

> I am going to choose to believe all of those people, and I am going to choose not to insult everyone suffering from ASD by claiming that that is how a person with ASD acts. Because that is a very awful thing to claim.

I have been precise in saying how a person with ASD might act and how that might be misinterpreted as "awful". If you misrepresent what I said as an excuse for anything RMS has ever done, including things that I may be unaware of, that's just more dishonesty on your part.

Re: John Sullivan resign as executive director of the Free Software Foundation

#418

Post by user-the-name »

incrudible wrote: post #417
user-the-name wrote: post #415

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Look. Pretty much everyone who has interacted with him keeps saying, over and over, that he is an absolutely awful person, that he is abusive, and that people keep telling him this and he keeps not doing anything whatsoever to change. I am going to choose to believe all of those people, and I am going to choose not to insult everyone suffering from ASD by claiming that that is how a person with ASD acts. Because that…

> Pretty much everyone who has interacted with him keeps saying, over and over, that he is an absolutely awful person, that he is abusive, and that people keep telling him this and he keeps not doing anything whatsoever to change. This is a brazenly dishonest statement. You obviously can't know "pretty much everyone" who has interacted with him, nor have all these people given a testimony for you to judge. I don't pe…

So are you saying that those who accuse rms of abusive and harassing behaviour are lying?

Re: John Sullivan resign as executive director of the Free Software Foundation

#419

Post by incrudible »

user-the-name wrote: post #418
incrudible wrote: post #417

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Pretty much everyone who has interacted with him keeps saying, over and over, that he is an absolutely awful person, that he is abusive, and that people keep telling him this and he keeps not doing anything whatsoever to change. This is a brazenly dishonest statement. You obviously can't know "pretty much everyone" who has interacted with him, nor have all these people given a testimony for you to judge. I don't pe…

So are you saying that those who accuse rms of abusive and harassing behaviour are lying?

No, I'm accusing you specifically of being dishonest.

Re: John Sullivan resign as executive director of the Free Software Foundation

#420

Post by jfengel »

Trixter wrote: post #386
risky_opinions wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> perhaps it's best to step away and not click "reply" afterall. This is censorship. It's why I'm posting anonymously for the first time in a long time. > there has never been a time where you can just blurt out a communication and have it be "accepted" by society We're in a new era where algorithms amplify rage and "mobs" are a composite of real people, anonymous users, and bots. You can't fight against it, and ther…

> This is censorship. It's why I'm posting anonymously for the first time in a long time. I think you're confusing censorship with accountability.

The difference is pretty easy to tell. Censorship is what happens to me. Accountability is what happens to you.
Post reply on HN