What have you developed in your spare time? • Hacker News Board

Re: What have you developed in your spare time?

#41

Post by trustfundbaby » Thu, Jun 16, 2011, 6:48 PM UTC

tjogin wrote: post #16

Shenglong wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From an employer perspective, they're trying to gauge drive and interest. While these questions may not be completely fair, and will exclude a lot of competent people, it is a decently good way to measure what they're looking for. I suppose, it's just a sad situation.

Yeah, kind of, but the false negatives are really severe. You want to select people who really care about development, and while that question might be a pretty good filter for people in their early twenties, it's also a good way to filter out those who have a decade+ more experience but have other life priorities, like a family. Certainly, their extra decade or more of work and life experience outweighs the inconven…

Certainly, their extra decade or more of work and life experience outweighs the inconvenience of them not programming very much in their spare time.

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A good developer with a decade of work/life experience would have built something in his spare time in the past ... when life wasn't always that hectic. That would work for me too, I'm sure a "I don't do a lot of programming after work now, but when I had more spare time, I did x" should suffice.

Plus, its not a disqualifier ... you don't discard an interviewee just because they don't have side projects that they've done.

Re: What have you developed in your spare time?

#42

Post by BadassFractal » Thu, Jun 16, 2011, 6:51 PM UTC

I truly dislike this question. If you enjoy reading, traveling, playing musical instruments, learning new hobbies, spending time with loved ones and so on, you will likely not have time to program another 2-3 hours a day after an already long day at work as a software engineer (including the long hours that come with the job).

Basically the question can be translated to: "Is programming the only thing you care about in life, if so we're more likely to hire you because we need a machine rather than a human being". As an employer, I can probably see that being a better bang for your buck. In fact if you could have a codemonkey work 12 hours a day without burning out for years for the same pay as a guy who works 8 hour days, would you really turn that guy down?

Re: What have you developed in your spare time?

#43

Post by garindra » Thu, Jun 16, 2011, 6:56 PM UTC

synnik wrote: post #5

mrcharles wrote: post #2

I take issue with this article because it would come across to me as a red flag about work-life balance. That an employer would expect you to be doing something programming related in your spare time comes across as a bit self-serving. Instead, I would ask "What would you like to develop in your spare time, if you had any?" That way they can answer the same as his question if they are working on stuff, but can still…

It is always dangerous to assume what answers are desired by an interviewer. Interviews are not just to get the job - it is to determine whether or not you would even want the job in the first place. So in this particular case, I would answer something about how I have taught my kids multiple languages, taught them kung fu, helped them to develop their own hobbies and become their own people, while at the same time w…

A question : are you in the Computer Science field?

While I think that the way you would answer may work beautifully in other fields, we also have to think about the employer's best interest and the field we're talking about here.

Employer's best interest, across most if not all fields, is primarily to hire people that have skills that will be useful in creating advantage of the company as a whole. In the case of Computer Science field, then, having an employee that answers that particular interview question with how he/she has contributed to open source and/or created side projects will have higher probability to create more value for the company than an employee that answers with how he/she is a great parent or how he/she's working in a non-profit of unrelated field.

Re: What have you developed in your spare time?

#44

Post by trustfundbaby » Thu, Jun 16, 2011, 6:58 PM UTC

irahul wrote: post #40

trustfundbaby wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One of them was co-inventor of gif format, another was a cygwin to contributor to cygwin gdb and so on. But that was all before their day job. Would you discard them as "not so good" because they don't do anything in their spare time? ----------------------------------- No, because their prior accomplishments speak for themselves. You need to stop looking at it as some yardstick to get over and understand that it is…

> No, because their prior accomplishments speak for themselves. I just quoted examples where their prior accomplishments was public. There were many whose prior accomplishments are not public and were for their employers. > simply an informal measure of a developer's passion and drive. I don't have a problem with using side projects as informal projects as informal measure of passion. I have a problem with your asser…

what I said was

"all the really good developers I've ever known or met have built something in their spare time"

you took that to mean that I saying that ALL good developers have side projects ... I'm not stating that as an empirical fact, and if you read the comments I've left its clear that I understand that.

Re: What have you developed in your spare time?

#45

Post by dsmith_hacker » Thu, Jun 16, 2011, 7:06 PM UTC

dsmith_hacker wrote: post #37

I think there is a difference between hiring students and hiring professionals. From my experience (currently in school), my peers that have side projects (including myself) enjoy programming for the challenges and would be, IMHO, better employees. The students that don't have side projects tend to be in school to JUST GET A JOB. They don't experiment with code and generally don't have a passion for it. In the end, I…

Not a valid opinion? Isn't there a difference between hiring a newly-graduated student vs an experienced programmer?

Re: What have you developed in your spare time?

#46

Post by bh42222 » Thu, Jun 16, 2011, 7:08 PM UTC

trustfundbaby wrote: post #31

mrcharles wrote: post #2

I take issue with this article because it would come across to me as a red flag about work-life balance. That an employer would expect you to be doing something programming related in your spare time comes across as a bit self-serving. Instead, I would ask "What would you like to develop in your spare time, if you had any?" That way they can answer the same as his question if they are working on stuff, but can still…

I take issue with this article because it would come across to me as a red flag about work-life balance. That an employer would expect you to be doing something programming related in your spare time comes across as a bit self-serving. --------------- I think you're reading too much into it ... I've been doing this for 7 years (not that long) and without fail all the really good developers I've ever known or met have…

Maybe I'm not just that good of a developer.

The last time I did something in my spare time was college.

Ever since I have not gone more then a few precious weeks without being employed as a software engineer full time. And I had to fight for those weeks BETWEEN jobs!

Once I'm done with work, finding myself in front of a computer again, is the last thing I want to do.

I have lots of projects I plan to get to when I'm in between jobs for a while, you know like in a recession. Too bad in this recession I was hired before I had a chance to leave the parking lot of my previous employer.

So yes, I guess I'm just not that good of a developer.

Re: What have you developed in your spare time?

#47

Post by bh42222 » Thu, Jun 16, 2011, 7:12 PM UTC

andywood wrote: post #29

mrcharles wrote: post #2

I take issue with this article because it would come across to me as a red flag about work-life balance. That an employer would expect you to be doing something programming related in your spare time comes across as a bit self-serving. Instead, I would ask "What would you like to develop in your spare time, if you had any?" That way they can answer the same as his question if they are working on stuff, but can still…

I don't think side projects are mutually exclusive with work-life balance. Granted, I don't have children; but aside from that, I think I've been living a very full and action-packed life. Time-consuming outdoor hobbies, girlfriends, friends, going out, travelling - check. I also waste sickening amounts of time on sites like this one, and playing video games. Yet I've found plenty of time over the years to work on tw…

Time-consuming outdoor hobbies, girlfriends, friends, going out, travelling - check. I also waste sickening amounts of time on sites like this one, and playing video games.

Serious question. Are you one of those people that have a genetic mutation which allows them to be well rested on much less sleep then the rest of us?

I do tend to think of that as just plain genetic superiority. (Assuming the current studies which show absolutely no deleterious side effects hold true.)

Re: What have you developed in your spare time?

#48

Post by trustfundbaby » Thu, Jun 16, 2011, 7:32 PM UTC

bh42222 wrote: post #46

trustfundbaby wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I take issue with this article because it would come across to me as a red flag about work-life balance. That an employer would expect you to be doing something programming related in your spare time comes across as a bit self-serving. --------------- I think you're reading too much into it ... I've been doing this for 7 years (not that long) and without fail all the really good developers I've ever known or met have…

Maybe I'm not just that good of a developer. The last time I did something in my spare time was college. Ever since I have not gone more then a few precious weeks without being employed as a software engineer full time. And I had to fight for those weeks BETWEEN jobs! Once I'm done with work, finding myself in front of a computer again, is the last thing I want to do. I have lots of projects I plan to get to when I'm…

Maybe I'm not just that good of a developer.

--------------------------

I should have realized that once you start subjectively talking about developer proficiency, people get defensive.

Side projects, in my opinion, are an indicator of developer skill, passion and drive ... they are not the only indicator.

Now if you and a guy come into my office looking for a gig and you all compare equally on paper and I like you both, but one guy hacked together a Hacker News firefox extension on the weekend because he wanted to play with the Mozilla addon api and you have nothing ... I'm picking the guy with the addon, and I don't think I need to apologize for that.

Re: What have you developed in your spare time?

#49

Post by infinite8s » Thu, Jun 16, 2011, 7:46 PM UTC

garindra wrote: post #43

synnik wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is always dangerous to assume what answers are desired by an interviewer. Interviews are not just to get the job - it is to determine whether or not you would even want the job in the first place. So in this particular case, I would answer something about how I have taught my kids multiple languages, taught them kung fu, helped them to develop their own hobbies and become their own people, while at the same time w…

A question : are you in the Computer Science field? While I think that the way you would answer may work beautifully in other fields, we also have to think about the employer's best interest and the field we're talking about here. Employer's best interest, across most if not all fields, is primarily to hire people that have skills that will be useful in creating advantage of the company as a whole. In the case of Com…

And as the grandparent post mentioned, he would probably not be interested in working at companies that focused so much on what their employees did in their free time.

Re: What have you developed in your spare time?

#50

Post by vain » Thu, Jun 16, 2011, 7:50 PM UTC

wisty wrote: post #30

vain wrote: post #9

Some of them are here http://twitterex.com http://reduce.li http://twitexplode.com And am building a facebook application: http://namesucker.com One pattern in all these, I lose interest and they fizzle out. So, if i could pose a question here, how do you keep yourself motivated?

Do you have customers? Co-developers? Or are you just working on your own? Are you struggling to get traction? If so, use analytics (AB testing?) to figure out how to get more customers. If you are just setting stuff up to satisfy your own curiosity (be honest), then it's quite rational to lose interest once the problem is solved.

i start off with enthusiasm and lose it at some point. For atleast one of the projects, I do think something worthwhile can come of it, that's twitterex.com. i am not sure how to go about doing AB testing on a simple site like that