John Sullivan resign as executive director of the Free Software Foundation • Hacker News Board

Re: John Sullivan resign as executive director of the Free Software Foundation

#31

Post by mustafa_pasi » Mon, Mar 29, 2021, 9:35 AM UTC

user-the-name wrote: post #22

risky_opinions wrote: post #9

I'm creating a throwaway that I hope won't irk dang. If this breaks the rules, I'm sorry and I'll stop. Richard Stallman single-handedly created the free software movement, and he's the reason we all have jobs. Google and Facebook might not have been possible in a world where you couldn't spin up a server for free and compile code without paying a license. Richard Stallman has said some sexist and edgy things. He als…

He has not just "said some sexist and edgy thing". He is abusive against everyone around him. He has sexually harassed numerous women near him, to the point that people lock themselves in their offices when he visits. He is incredibly, incredibly toxic. He has had a huge crowd of people trying, again and again, to tell him to stop acting like this, and to be a decent human being. He refuses. He is a massive burden on…

> He is abusive against everyone around him. He has sexually harassed numerous women near him, to the point that people lock themselves in their offices when he visits.

Then why didn't these women report him to the whoever competent authorities at MIT? Or to the police if the crime is serious enough? Why are they signing an open letter on the internet instead?

Please don't parrot unfounded heresy.

Re: John Sullivan resign as executive director of the Free Software Foundation

#32

Post by minitech » Mon, Mar 29, 2021, 9:36 AM UTC

risky_opinions wrote: post #9

I'm creating a throwaway that I hope won't irk dang. If this breaks the rules, I'm sorry and I'll stop. Richard Stallman single-handedly created the free software movement, and he's the reason we all have jobs. Google and Facebook might not have been possible in a world where you couldn't spin up a server for free and compile code without paying a license. Richard Stallman has said some sexist and edgy things. He als…

> I was reading comments in another HN thread, and one poster suggested that this might arise from raising kids without bullying. Like the immune system, if we don't develop a central tolerance, perhaps we start attacking everything we find unpleasant? No basis in behavioral science, of course.

Forget basis in behavioral science, this has no basis in anything, and you’re deluded if you think kids aren’t still bullied today. What a trash take.

Re: John Sullivan resign as executive director of the Free Software Foundation

#33

Post by smt88 » Mon, Mar 29, 2021, 9:36 AM UTC

risky_opinions wrote: post #9

I'm creating a throwaway that I hope won't irk dang. If this breaks the rules, I'm sorry and I'll stop. Richard Stallman single-handedly created the free software movement, and he's the reason we all have jobs. Google and Facebook might not have been possible in a world where you couldn't spin up a server for free and compile code without paying a license. Richard Stallman has said some sexist and edgy things. He als…

"Tolerance" doesn't mean someone can have any prominent position they want.

I completely support Stallman's right to say that he believes children can consent to sex. It's not sexist or edgy -- it's repulsive and sounds like the stuff Epstein used to say. But he still deserves to have friends and rights.

What he doesn't deserve is coworkers or teammates who are forced to pretend he didn't say that stuff. He said it and there are consequences.

Could any of the rest of us tweet about our theoretical support for statutory rape and still have jobs?

And the things he said that denigrated parents who raise children with Down's syndrome is arguably worse.

Twitter is not destroying careers. People are destroying their own careers.

Re: John Sullivan resign as executive director of the Free Software Foundation

#34

Post by user-the-name » Mon, Mar 29, 2021, 9:36 AM UTC

risky_opinions wrote: post #15

fen4o wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

See https://rms-open-letter.github.io/ and the counter-letter https://rms-support-letter.github.io/

I could see companies starting to screen applicants using these lists. Different companies would choose which list to use according to their own politics and culture. Totally hypothetical: Coinbase and Google will probably turn rms-open-letter into a denylist. Twitter will do the opposite. This is all conjecture, but I could see it happening. It's why I feel I shouldn't sign.

One list is full of people who have achieved big things, and are in positions of power.

The other is full of throwaway and inactive github accounts.

Re: John Sullivan resign as executive director of the Free Software Foundation

#35

Post by secondcoming » Mon, Mar 29, 2021, 9:36 AM UTC

fen4o wrote: post #7

oblio wrote: post #2

Is this related to Stallman going back to the FSF?

See https://rms-open-letter.github.io/ and the counter-letter https://rms-support-letter.github.io/

I know it's impossible but it would be very interesting to see how the participants in each list break down by $IDENTITY_GROUP.

Edit: it seems some people are not interested in this data

Re: John Sullivan resign as executive director of the Free Software Foundation

#36

Post by risky_opinions » Mon, Mar 29, 2021, 9:37 AM UTC

aboringusername wrote: post #23

risky_opinions wrote: post #9

I'm creating a throwaway that I hope won't irk dang. If this breaks the rules, I'm sorry and I'll stop. Richard Stallman single-handedly created the free software movement, and he's the reason we all have jobs. Google and Facebook might not have been possible in a world where you couldn't spin up a server for free and compile code without paying a license. Richard Stallman has said some sexist and edgy things. He als…

> I don't want to live in a world without American freedom of speech - where we can't be blunt and speak our minds. I take issue with this. I'm not hugely adept at history but from my understanding there has never been a time where you can just blurt out a communication and have it be "accepted" by society - this seems to me very American and appears very detached from reality and real world experience. Yes, you are…

> perhaps it's best to step away and not click "reply" afterall.

This is censorship. It's why I'm posting anonymously for the first time in a long time.

> there has never been a time where you can just blurt out a communication and have it be "accepted" by society

We're in a new era where algorithms amplify rage and "mobs" are a composite of real people, anonymous users, and bots. You can't fight against it, and there's no due process or forgiveness.

Re: John Sullivan resign as executive director of the Free Software Foundation

#37

Post by Number157 » Mon, Mar 29, 2021, 9:37 AM UTC

bitwize wrote: post #17

I've given a lot of thought to this issue and though I've wanted to give Richard Stallman the benefit of the doubt, I've come to an inescapable conclusion: The FSF board of directors really stepped in it bringing Stallman back, especially in the clandestine manner that they did. They have squandered the goodwill of the community by promoting a controversial figure known for his toxic opinions and decades of bad behav…

This community is toxic and drives good but flawed people away.

Re: John Sullivan resign as executive director of the Free Software Foundation

#38

Post by raverbashing » Mon, Mar 29, 2021, 9:37 AM UTC

risky_opinions wrote: post #9

I'm creating a throwaway that I hope won't irk dang. If this breaks the rules, I'm sorry and I'll stop. Richard Stallman single-handedly created the free software movement, and he's the reason we all have jobs. Google and Facebook might not have been possible in a world where you couldn't spin up a server for free and compile code without paying a license. Richard Stallman has said some sexist and edgy things. He als…

> Do we destroy the pillar we've built our entire livelihoods upon to satisfy a mob?

Who says we are? Is Free Software being thrown out of the bus with this? No

The question here is RMS re-joining the FSF board. That's it. People are questioning him rejoining a privileged position.

It's not a prison sentence. He's not being prevented to earn a living.

Yes, nobody is free of blame, everybody has controversial opinions. But at the same time, it's not the right job for him.

Re: John Sullivan resign as executive director of the Free Software Foundation

#39

Post by davty » Mon, Mar 29, 2021, 9:38 AM UTC

It was briefly discussed in this episode of floss weekly https://twit.tv/shows/floss-weekly/episodes/622?autostart=fa... and I think the guest made an interesting observation in that quite a big issue in FSF is that the board is entirely self-selected, the community is not really involved. Thus, the future of the GPL is entirely in the hand of a few people who picked themselves so to say.

Re: John Sullivan resign as executive director of the Free Software Foundation

#40

Post by Andrew_nenakhov » Mon, Mar 29, 2021, 9:38 AM UTC

rich_sasha wrote: post #8

A whole different angle, I wonder how well the FSF folk get on with RMS. For all the defenses people mount of him, no one says he's a nice guy to be around. I'm still against the Twitter mob etc., I do wonder though if RMS nuked his own organisation by joining the helm again. Life's unfair.

It does not matter if rms is a nice person or not. He didn't do anything criminal, his only offense is stoically and pedantically expressing his views, unyielding to public pressure. In other words, displaying those very qualities that helped him change software development forever. People should not be destroyed for not being nice enough to certain individuals prone to offenses, and conforming to someone else's views should not be a necessity to work in your chosen field.