John Sullivan resign as executive director of the Free Software Foundation • Hacker News Board

Re: John Sullivan resign as executive director of the Free Software Foundation

#11

Post by enriquto » Mon, Mar 29, 2021, 9:24 AM UTC

risky_opinions wrote: post #9

I'm creating a throwaway that I hope won't irk dang. If this breaks the rules, I'm sorry and I'll stop. Richard Stallman single-handedly created the free software movement, and he's the reason we all have jobs. Google and Facebook might not have been possible in a world where you couldn't spin up a server for free and compile code without paying a license. Richard Stallman has said some sexist and edgy things. He als…

> What do we do about this?

There's not much we can do about that; the world is a horrible, unfair place. If Socrates was born again, we would kill him again.

Re: John Sullivan resign as executive director of the Free Software Foundation

#12

Post by tester34 » Mon, Mar 29, 2021, 9:25 AM UTC

risky_opinions wrote: post #9

I'm creating a throwaway that I hope won't irk dang. If this breaks the rules, I'm sorry and I'll stop. Richard Stallman single-handedly created the free software movement, and he's the reason we all have jobs. Google and Facebook might not have been possible in a world where you couldn't spin up a server for free and compile code without paying a license. Richard Stallman has said some sexist and edgy things. He als…

>I don't want to live in a world without American freedom of speech - where we can't be blunt and speak our minds.

reading weekly cancel of somebody because they said something in the past doesn't convince me about this "freedom of speech" stuff

Re: John Sullivan resign as executive director of the Free Software Foundation

#13

Post by aboringusername » Mon, Mar 29, 2021, 9:26 AM UTC

I apologize if this particular thread isn't the appropriate forum for this but this type of activity is inevitable at one point or another, and perhaps he just wants to retire of there are politics/shenanigans at play, no organization can be free of politics afterall.

Yet, there are many examples of software projects with "BDFLs", the Linux Kernel being the most prominent one I can think of. I suspect there are people just waiting, biding their time until Linus retires - who takes over him? How does the governance structure change? Who takes over David M's net stack? Greg's stable trees?

I find it fascinating to think about and I am very curious when known figures step down and to watch what happens next, how things change. Are they subtle? Are they more obvious? How does this play out in 5 years?

To me it's one of the more interesting aspects of communities since one person can really make a huge difference (for example, Ballmer/Satya at MS).

Re: John Sullivan resign as executive director of the Free Software Foundation

#14

Post by Jonnax » Mon, Mar 29, 2021, 9:27 AM UTC

risky_opinions wrote: post #9

I'm creating a throwaway that I hope won't irk dang. If this breaks the rules, I'm sorry and I'll stop. Richard Stallman single-handedly created the free software movement, and he's the reason we all have jobs. Google and Facebook might not have been possible in a world where you couldn't spin up a server for free and compile code without paying a license. Richard Stallman has said some sexist and edgy things. He als…

Stallman has stated that he does not have Aspergers or Autism.

But for some reason people online can't stop themselves from diagnosing him with it.

Re: John Sullivan resign as executive director of the Free Software Foundation

#15

Post by risky_opinions » Mon, Mar 29, 2021, 9:27 AM UTC

fen4o wrote: post #7

oblio wrote: post #2

Is this related to Stallman going back to the FSF?

See https://rms-open-letter.github.io/ and the counter-letter https://rms-support-letter.github.io/

I could see companies starting to screen applicants using these lists.

Different companies would choose which list to use according to their own politics and culture.

Totally hypothetical: Coinbase and Google will probably turn rms-open-letter into a denylist. Twitter will do the opposite.

This is all conjecture, but I could see it happening. It's why I feel I shouldn't sign.

Re: John Sullivan resign as executive director of the Free Software Foundation

#16

Post by clappski » Mon, Mar 29, 2021, 9:28 AM UTC

risky_opinions wrote: post #9

I'm creating a throwaway that I hope won't irk dang. If this breaks the rules, I'm sorry and I'll stop. Richard Stallman single-handedly created the free software movement, and he's the reason we all have jobs. Google and Facebook might not have been possible in a world where you couldn't spin up a server for free and compile code without paying a license. Richard Stallman has said some sexist and edgy things. He als…

> I don't want to live in a world without American freedom of speech - where we can't be blunt and speak our minds.

Freedom of speech isn't the freedom to not be publicly judged about what you say.

Re: John Sullivan resign as executive director of the Free Software Foundation

#17

Post by bitwize » Mon, Mar 29, 2021, 9:30 AM UTC

I've given a lot of thought to this issue and though I've wanted to give Richard Stallman the benefit of the doubt, I've come to an inescapable conclusion:

The FSF board of directors really stepped in it bringing Stallman back, especially in the clandestine manner that they did. They have squandered the goodwill of the community by promoting a controversial figure known for his toxic opinions and decades of bad behavior to a leadership position. The FSF is at grave risk of losing its funding and its reputation, both of which it needs to carry out its mission.

As such, it is appropriate for Stallman and the entire FSF board to resign. John Sullivan has made the right decision. He will doubtless be followed by others -- and hopefully, if Stallman refuses to resign, he will be ousted by the new board.

All of the leadership in open source does not want Stallman in a leadership role because of the toxic effect he has on the community, in particular driving women -- and more recently, those repulsed by pedophilia -- away. There are times to fight social pressure; this is not one of them.

Re: John Sullivan resign as executive director of the Free Software Foundation

#18

Post by QuesnayJr » Mon, Mar 29, 2021, 9:31 AM UTC

enriquto wrote: post #11

risky_opinions wrote: post #9

I'm creating a throwaway that I hope won't irk dang. If this breaks the rules, I'm sorry and I'll stop. Richard Stallman single-handedly created the free software movement, and he's the reason we all have jobs. Google and Facebook might not have been possible in a world where you couldn't spin up a server for free and compile code without paying a license. Richard Stallman has said some sexist and edgy things. He als…

> What do we do about this? There's not much we can do about that; the world is a horrible, unfair place. If Socrates was born again, we would kill him again.

Your last sentence perfectly captures something I think all the time, but could never articulate pithily.

Re: John Sullivan resign as executive director of the Free Software Foundation

#19

Post by kosinus » Mon, Mar 29, 2021, 9:32 AM UTC

risky_opinions wrote: post #9

I'm creating a throwaway that I hope won't irk dang. If this breaks the rules, I'm sorry and I'll stop. Richard Stallman single-handedly created the free software movement, and he's the reason we all have jobs. Google and Facebook might not have been possible in a world where you couldn't spin up a server for free and compile code without paying a license. Richard Stallman has said some sexist and edgy things. He als…

> American freedom of speech

This specifically is such a weird expression.

Other than that, just because Stallman did a good thing once, doesn’t excuse him from other mistakes. And making mistakes is not itself a problem, you can always own up to them and learn. But what I gather from the discussion is that there is a _pattern_ of bad behaviour.

Re: John Sullivan resign as executive director of the Free Software Foundation

#20

Post by arpinum » Mon, Mar 29, 2021, 9:32 AM UTC

risky_opinions wrote: post #9

I'm creating a throwaway that I hope won't irk dang. If this breaks the rules, I'm sorry and I'll stop. Richard Stallman single-handedly created the free software movement, and he's the reason we all have jobs. Google and Facebook might not have been possible in a world where you couldn't spin up a server for free and compile code without paying a license. Richard Stallman has said some sexist and edgy things. He als…

RMS does not have the skillset needed for a leadership position today. If you care about the movement, it needs a leader people want to follow. Just because RMS is not at the top doesn't mean he is being denied chances and isn't forgiven. I'm sure he can continue writing code. He just isn't good enough as a leader of a broad movement. That isn't a slight, most of us couldn't do it.