The WHO-China search for the origins of the coronavirus • Hacker News Board

Re: The WHO-China search for the origins of the coronavirus

#171

Post by aantix » Mon, Mar 29, 2021, 1:18 AM UTC

LudwigNagasena wrote: post #167

camjohnson26 wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let’s stay on topic. The truth is that many people were reluctant to even consider the lab theory because it might look anti-Chinese at a time when Trump was blatantly attacking them and blaming them for the virus with no evidence. The point is that politics led to censorship that made it difficult to consider all possibilities.

It is sad that so many people would rather compromise their integrity rather than agree with Trump.

The mere mention of the word Trump, and any sort of nuanced, pro/con conversation is lost. It becomes an emotional response. A sad state of public discourse.

Re: The WHO-China search for the origins of the coronavirus

#172

Post by [deleted] » Mon, Mar 29, 2021, 1:20 AM UTC

dang wrote: post #154

EMM_386 wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are pointing out one section while ignoring another. What about the last sentence regarding WIV scientists studying human-disease causing SARS coronaviruses until "permission is granted" by China's NHFCP? The one with the redacted bit at the front? I'm not sure if you are intentionally playing games with words here but let's cut to the chase. Edit: Reading through your comment history and submissions, I can see t…

You've broken the site guidelines badly here, regardless of what any other account has been doing. Please review https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and stick to the rules.

[deleted]

Re: The WHO-China search for the origins of the coronavirus

#173

Post by randomopining » Mon, Mar 29, 2021, 1:20 AM UTC

It’s obvious the CCP unleashed it either purposely or by accident. You can tell from their behavior. Work back from their behavior to uncover the truth.

They’re hiding the origins and have destroyed evidence.

Re: The WHO-China search for the origins of the coronavirus

#174

Post by madars » Mon, Mar 29, 2021, 1:21 AM UTC

pw262 wrote: post #157

Early last year I remember reading that the Wuhan lab had a period of several days when no cell phone traffic occurred. This was postulated to be due to an evacuation of the lab. This has not be repeated recently or mentioned as evidence of a breach.

I think it was https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/national-security/report-sa... where the source document was https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/6884792-MACE-E-PAI-C...

Re: The WHO-China search for the origins of the coronavirus

#175

Post by lamontcg » Mon, Mar 29, 2021, 1:23 AM UTC

thowaway959125 wrote: post #89

Note that SARS-CoV-2 contains a unique furin cleavage site, unseen in other coronaviruses. The first to point this out, in February 2020, was the Wuhan Institute of Virology: https://link.springer.com/content/pdf/10.1007/s12250-020-002... This strange furin cleave site allows the virus to bind to human ACE2 receptors. An interesting scientific reading on this, which does not rule out genetic manipulation in a lab: ht…

"Furin cleavage sites naturally occur in coronaviruses"

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S187350612...

HCoV-OC43 and HCoV-UK1 both have them and they've likely evolved several times over in parallel evolution (or as the result of multiple infection and recombination maybe?)

Re: The WHO-China search for the origins of the coronavirus

#176

Post by lamontcg » Mon, Mar 29, 2021, 1:34 AM UTC

to1y wrote: post #55

qwerty1234599 wrote: post #22

Obviously not. It's some random wild animal population of an unknown species, living near a bat cave in rural China.

So this particularly odd strain came from caves 900km away and settled next to a virology institute which has been studying coronaviruses for the last 15 years? Are you a betting man? If you think about it the alternative(it came from nature) is arguably much more worrying. Does it matter? Not that much. It'd just put an end to the research. This field of study has been criticized forever for this exact reason and th…

> came from caves 900km away

The known RaTG13 sample came from caves 900km away and was 96% similar.

That viruses existence does not preclude the existence of a 99% similar sarbecovirus in the bats in Hubei.

Sarbecoviruses do exist in Rhinolophus bats in Hubei:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/nuccore/FJ588692

Re: The WHO-China search for the origins of the coronavirus

#177

Post by rossdavidh » Mon, Mar 29, 2021, 1:41 AM UTC

So, another problem with the WHO team investigating this, is that if it came from a lab it not only makes China look bad, it also makes scientists look bad. Regardless of whether it should or not (and I am certainly in favor of researching potential threats), it clearly will. If I'm a Dutch, Canadian, Indian, or any other kind of researcher who looks at viruses (or anything else really) that comes from wild animals, I would have a really big emotional block in the way of any suggestion that this came about because of my profession.

1) it wouldn't feel good

2) it wouldn't do good things for my prospects of getting more funding for my lab

3) it would cause a bunch of new onerous regulations to come down on the way I get to work in my lab

4) it would make me wonder if friends and family and neighbors and etc. now regard my profession as the cause of a disaster

I don't think we can expect bankers to decide that excess financial complexity was the cause of the 2008 Fiscal Crisis, or intelligence agencies to decide that excessive meddling in other countries fueled terrorism. It is expecting quite a lot to think that scientists will decide that scientific research is what caused this problem.

Re: The WHO-China search for the origins of the coronavirus

#178

Post by twobitshifter » Mon, Mar 29, 2021, 1:56 AM UTC

neuronic wrote: post #78

jkingsbery wrote: post #75

So, to summarize-the-summary: there are four possible theories: 1. Direct-jump from bat population 2. Started in bats, came to humans through intermediate animal 3. Came from frozen food outside of China 4. Lab accident. I used to think the lab accident theory was crazy, because it sounds like a science fiction movie. Not an impossible theory, just a crazy one. But according to this article, despite a year of investi…

The lab accident isn't crazy. Happens in the West too, it's just something that will be politically weaponized against China if it were to admit it, although we just got lucky in the US and Europe before. Typical Western hypocrisy would be at play and China has no motivation whatsoever to subject itself to that. Also, SARS-1 escaped twice, in Singapore and Beijing: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_accidents_and_…

If China did allow this virus to escape, and covered it up shouldn’t they be held liable for trillions in economic damage, as well as compensation for victims around the world?

Re: The WHO-China search for the origins of the coronavirus

#179

Post by 2-tpg » Mon, Mar 29, 2021, 2:05 AM UTC

MilnerRoute wrote: post #151

2-tpg wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We know that patient 0 was not at the market, and that people at the market got infected. So, perfectly valid scenario: 1. Scientists do controversial Gain-of-function research by collecting viruses from miles away and importing them to Wuhan. 2. Lab leak happens 3. First linked clusters pop up a few miles away in a rather unsanitary market, with plenty of reservoirs and infection possibilities. 4. Virus is found in…

What's frustrating about this is I feel like it doesn't matter how much evidence there is for the emerging consensus that it emerged from an animal at the market. The counter-argument is still always, "Yes, yes, but what if instead of that maybe it somehow came from a badly-run lab instead?"

It is also frustrating to hear:

- Ah.. It came from the meat market (official positions) - Likely from live bats - Who are not sold at that meat market - Who are hybernating - Who come from a cave 900 miles away

Yes, yes, but what if instead it maybe came from a badly-run lab studying that exact bat just a few miles away?

- We strongly condemn any theory that may lead to the suggestion that it came from the lab. You are directly insulting the work of our Chinese colleagues, threatening our relations in Gain-of-Function research and funding, and furthering harmful conspiracy theories accusing the Chinese authorities of a cover-up. I, Peter Daszak, will do a thorough investigation into the origins, which all responsible scientists have already concluded is natural in origin.

Re: The WHO-China search for the origins of the coronavirus

#180

Post by twobitshifter » Mon, Mar 29, 2021, 2:06 AM UTC

Does the WHO organization have much credibility left when dealing with China? I remember the embarrassment when a WHO official was asked to talk about about the successful COVID response in Taiwan and he had to awkwardly end the interview. The WHO looked like a puppet of the Chinese government rather than an independent organization. If they can’t talk about Taiwan would they really be expected to uncover anything that puts the Chinese government in a negative light?