China boycotts Western clothes brands over Xinjiang cotton • Hacker News Board

Re: China boycotts Western clothes brands over Xinjiang cotton

#61

Post by hayst4ck » Sun, Mar 28, 2021, 4:36 AM UTC

oreally wrote: post #42

jonathannat wrote: post #9

With regards to Xinjiang sanctions, China has also - sanctioned US/Canadian/UK/EU individuals and entities - erased H&M in all major Chinese platforms https://wwd.com/business-news/retail/hm-face-new-boycott-chi... While that's happening, China has also - signed a 25-year cooperation agreement with Iran - censored 'stock market' term from social media searches after stocks posted longest losing streak https://markets…

Sounds like the typical westernized narrow view of China. Whenever there's a rising power that threatens the current number #1, you'll see such events happening. It has happened time and again and the only difference now is that there is far less blood being spilled. On the flip side, the rest of the world remembers what dirty things the US did during it's hold on global power. WMDs in iraq, double ethical standards…

> In this case many Chinese think this whole debacle is a based off lies fabricated by dubious western sources

This is very true, our media lies to us, and it lies to you, but isn't there something to be said about not having the freedom to think what you want in your own country, nor being able to read what information you want?

No matter who commits a condemn-able act it should be condemned, most of all if it's your own group. The most scary thing to me about China or a Chinese hegemony is not the shift of power, but that Chinese citizens are unable to be informed nor are they able to condemn their own government. There is no public veto for CPC behavior. China has assumed the role of the victim (century of humiliation), but acts as the abuser (destruction of Tibetan/Uigher/Hong Kong culture and a desire to destroy Taiwan), and then justifies the abuse it doles out by the abuses it has received.

The second most scary thing to me about Chinese hegemony is that dialogue is primarily based around power. Who has the power to do what, not what is morally right, not the rules that should apply to all countries and people, but most of all itself. So what is China's moral basis and ethics system founded upon? Might makes right. That is terrifying to me.

> The problem is whether you western folks will be played by your institutions into doing things that destroy your own credibility in the eyes of the rest of the world.

Does China's own credibility not matter?

Re: China boycotts Western clothes brands over Xinjiang cotton

#62

Post by justinzollars » Sun, Mar 28, 2021, 4:41 AM UTC

jonathannat wrote: post #9

With regards to Xinjiang sanctions, China has also - sanctioned US/Canadian/UK/EU individuals and entities - erased H&M in all major Chinese platforms https://wwd.com/business-news/retail/hm-face-new-boycott-chi... While that's happening, China has also - signed a 25-year cooperation agreement with Iran - censored 'stock market' term from social media searches after stocks posted longest losing streak https://markets…

The United States is sailing the 7th fleet off of the Chinese coast and has China surrounded by military bases, some very close to the Chinese mainland.

The Shanghai Communiqué - Joint Communique of the United States of America and the People's Republic of China, settled the Taiwan question in the 1970's:

http://www.taiwandocuments.org/communique01.htm

> The U.S. side declared: The United States acknowledges that all Chinese on either side of the Taiwan Strait maintain there is but one China and that Taiwan is a part of China. It reaffirms its interest in a peaceful settlement of the Taiwan question by the Chinese themselves

If you put yourself in China's shoes, and consider China's history. How would you feel if a Chinese fleet was sailing off of the coast of California and stoking internal tensions?

Re: China boycotts Western clothes brands over Xinjiang cotton

#63

Post by 8note » Sun, Mar 28, 2021, 4:42 AM UTC

jonathannat wrote: post #29

0df8dkdf wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is interesting, cause China has just become Europe's num 1 trading partner. Seems just like another US/China trade war escalating.

> Europe's num 1 trading partner if you only count goods. if you count goods + services, US is still the biggest trading partner

It's not too far off that the EU starts properly taxing US services, so that might not last

Re: China boycotts Western clothes brands over Xinjiang cotton

#64

Post by jcranmer » Sun, Mar 28, 2021, 4:43 AM UTC

oreally wrote: post #42

jonathannat wrote: post #9

With regards to Xinjiang sanctions, China has also - sanctioned US/Canadian/UK/EU individuals and entities - erased H&M in all major Chinese platforms https://wwd.com/business-news/retail/hm-face-new-boycott-chi... While that's happening, China has also - signed a 25-year cooperation agreement with Iran - censored 'stock market' term from social media searches after stocks posted longest losing streak https://markets…

Sounds like the typical westernized narrow view of China. Whenever there's a rising power that threatens the current number #1, you'll see such events happening. It has happened time and again and the only difference now is that there is far less blood being spilled. On the flip side, the rest of the world remembers what dirty things the US did during it's hold on global power. WMDs in iraq, double ethical standards…

It's funny that you mention the WMDs in Iraq. This is an episode of US foreign policy that many people and countries (rightfully) criticized. Yet when it happened, the US didn't start boycotting everyone who criticized it; the worst that happened was US Congress deciding to change the name of "French Fries" to "Freedom Fries" in its cafeteria [1].

In contrast, China right now seems to be responding right now to anyone who dares to criticize it with immediate sanctions and reprisals. I'm not immediately aware of any time in the history of hegemon replacement cycles where either the old or the new hegemon acted in such a manner.

[1] Amusingly, the dish isn't even French, it's Belgian.

Re: China boycotts Western clothes brands over Xinjiang cotton

#65

Post by justinzollars » Sun, Mar 28, 2021, 4:44 AM UTC

jonathannat wrote: post #59

justinzollars wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://www.pwc.com/gx/en/research-insights/economy/the-worl... China GDP will be much larger than US by 2050 https://www.politico.eu/article/china-topples-us-as-eus-top-... China topples US as EU Top trade partner https://www.upi.com/Defense-News/2019/08/20/Report-Chinas-mi... Report: China's military could overwhelm U.S. forces in Indo-Pacific region https://news.cgtn.com/news/2020-10-01/From-nobody-to-somebod... C…

first link is "The World in 2050 report was published in February 2017" second link is only regarding goods. goods + services, US is EU top trade partner third link: there are now Japan/Australian/US/UK/France/German warships patrolling in the indo-pacific region. fourth link: costly to maintain, uncertainty post covid

Many British believed they were number 1, a world leader, long after they were left behind and this was not the case.

Re: China boycotts Western clothes brands over Xinjiang cotton

#66

Post by alasdair_ » Sun, Mar 28, 2021, 4:49 AM UTC

oreally wrote: post #42

jonathannat wrote: post #9

With regards to Xinjiang sanctions, China has also - sanctioned US/Canadian/UK/EU individuals and entities - erased H&M in all major Chinese platforms https://wwd.com/business-news/retail/hm-face-new-boycott-chi... While that's happening, China has also - signed a 25-year cooperation agreement with Iran - censored 'stock market' term from social media searches after stocks posted longest losing streak https://markets…

Sounds like the typical westernized narrow view of China. Whenever there's a rising power that threatens the current number #1, you'll see such events happening. It has happened time and again and the only difference now is that there is far less blood being spilled. On the flip side, the rest of the world remembers what dirty things the US did during it's hold on global power. WMDs in iraq, double ethical standards…

The US does all kinds of terrible things but, importantly, we are all mostly[1] free to call these things out and make it clear that bullshit is happening.

The CCP is different. Their censorship is overt and draconian. Even the most wealthy and powerful citizens of China risk being taken in for questioning for speaking the truth about power.

[1] Manning, Snowden, Assange et al notwithstanding.

Re: China boycotts Western clothes brands over Xinjiang cotton

#67

Post by seanmcdirmid » Sun, Mar 28, 2021, 4:56 AM UTC

justinzollars wrote: post #55

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ya, its just like what everyone said about Japan’s growth trajectory in the 1980s. Similar predictions even.

Except China is 4 United States's.

Bigger size/more population only makes the problem harder.

Re: China boycotts Western clothes brands over Xinjiang cotton

#68

Post by alasdair_ » Sun, Mar 28, 2021, 5:05 AM UTC

endisneigh wrote: post #21

jonathannat wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://www.scmp.com/economy/china-economy/article/3015206/c... China’s economic census uncovers more fake data as officials promise ‘zero tolerance’ to data manipulation https://www.heritage.org/international-economies/commentary/... The Problem of False Chinese Economic Data https://nationalinterest.org/blog/buzz/yes-china-lying-about... Yes China Is Lying About the Size of Their Economy

I very intentionally did not specify a number - I said very generally that the Chinese economy has been growing steadily. This is pretty much indisputable. Your links do not dispute that China has grown in this century, more the extent to which the growth has occurred. China is likely exaggerating their growth but regardless it has been growing.

That’s a remarkably vague metric. I’d bet that almost every single country on earth would meet the criteria of “country X has grown this century”

Re: China boycotts Western clothes brands over Xinjiang cotton

#69

Post by vkou » Sun, Mar 28, 2021, 5:15 AM UTC

tirrex wrote: post #53

Whenever you see a post about “what did China do again today”, it has lots of up-votes but what a surprise it is not in the front page. Looks like dictatorship lovers are flagging these posts?

People who hate the constant flamewars about China are probably flagging these posts. I've yet to see a single thread that's even tangentially related to the country not devolve into nationalistic tug-of-war.

Re: China boycotts Western clothes brands over Xinjiang cotton

#70

Post by nayuki » Sun, Mar 28, 2021, 5:15 AM UTC

TeeMassive wrote: post #3

I didn't read the article because it's behind a paywall, but I was wondering, is the Chinese market that much of a deal for Western companies given selling things in China is much harder than the other way around?

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