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U.S. fears China attack on Taiwan

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Re: U.S. fears China attack on Taiwan

#191

Post by hilbertseries »

leereeves wrote: post #169
hilbertseries wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The solution is simple, give Taiwan nukes.

I think Taiwan, one of the most technologically advanced nations in the world, could make their own nukes if they wanted them.

China would intervene if they started a nuclear program. I was mostly being facetious. But it would be rather satisfying after China has spent the past few decades propping up North Korea and letting them develop nuclear weapons. If Taiwan all of a sudden was a nuclear power, that would pose a serious threat to China.

Re: U.S. fears China attack on Taiwan

#192

Post by AnimalMuppet »

dogma1138 wrote: post #149
lmilcin wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not recognizing Taiwan doesn't make any sense unless you fear retaliation from China, which is exactly the point. People say US will save Taiwan from China? I call bullshit. If that was true US should have no trouble recognizing Taiwan which would be hopefully be start of the process of getting legitimacy Taiwan needs. I fully expect US to do nothing if China invades Taiwan. Mark my words.

Not recognizing Taiwan makes a lot of sense when you wish not to cause an escalation that could lead to an invasion of Taiwan, this is why Taiwan itself has never declared independence, something most people forget.

There are people in Taiwan who agree with the "one China" policy, and claim that the government of Taiwan is the ruler of that one China. Declaring independence means renouncing their claim on the rest of China.

Now, in the real world, that claim plus six bucks will get you a latte at Starbucks. But politically, letting go of it might cost more than any political party is willing to pay. Thus both sides of the straights cling to the "one China" fiction.

Re: U.S. fears China attack on Taiwan

#193

Post by dogma1138 »

AnimalMuppet wrote: post #192
dogma1138 wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not recognizing Taiwan makes a lot of sense when you wish not to cause an escalation that could lead to an invasion of Taiwan, this is why Taiwan itself has never declared independence, something most people forget.

There are people in Taiwan who agree with the "one China" policy, and claim that the government of Taiwan is the ruler of that one China. Declaring independence means renouncing their claim on the rest of China. Now, in the real world, that claim plus six bucks will get you a latte at Starbucks. But politically, letting go of it might cost more than any political party is willing to pay. Thus both sides of the straig…

Yes there are, however even if there weren’t any and today the majority would likely support independence the reality is that the threat from China due to such a declaration is a far greater factor in why Taiwan still maintains the one China policy.

Re: U.S. fears China attack on Taiwan

#194

Post by twelve40 »

PureParadigm wrote: post #41

Due to the one child policy, China is going to experience a demographic collapse this decade as more people retire than are available to replace them in the workforce. So the 2020s is the pivotal decade as China nears the height of its power. The CCP is aware of this and knows that if they are ever going to take Taiwan, it would ideally be this decade. Politically, it will also need a victory as the Chinese economy i…

They probably will have demographic problems, but a collapse this decade seems a bit of an aggressive schedule.

Pulling up some numbers here (don't know much about the subject):

"In 2050, the proportion of Chinese over retirement age will become 39 percent of the total population. At that time, its dependency ratio will rise to 69.7%" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aging_of_China

Assuming this is referring to the total dependency ratio, China in 2050 is expected to be exactly where Japan is today (69%), and Japan hasn't collapsed yet.

Re: U.S. fears China attack on Taiwan

#195

Post by jtdev »

Fricken wrote: post #102
gentleman11 wrote: post #54

All the American companies that choose to censor the word Taiwan and call it part of China are directly complicit with this. No rational person in a position of responsibility could have thought that this wasn’t the long term intention

Not even the American government officially recognizes Taiwan as a sovereign nation. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taiwan%E2%80%93United_States...

Trump did in many regards, and the PC crowd lost their fucking minds over it.

Re: U.S. fears China attack on Taiwan

#196

Post by whoooooo123 »

megous wrote: post #179
whoooooo123 wrote: post #44

Fun fact: satellite photos of China's largest military base show that it contains a detailed, lifesize replica of a part of downtown Taipei including the presidential palace. I wonder what the soldiers on that base might be training for?

They also have Eiffel tower. Probably not because they want to invade France.

Maybe it's a disinformation campaign to weaken Taiwan's defenses by tricking us into redeploying half our troops to Paris because we're not sure where the attack will be.

Re: U.S. fears China attack on Taiwan

#197

Post by fragsworth »

hawk_ wrote: post #132
f6v wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Also it's not like Crimea annexation where the aggressor had local support. As a crimean, I find the way you write “Crimea wanted to become part of Russia” extremely funny.

My bad but that's the impression I have had from international media. Russian forces didn't face any significant resitance and the local russian speaking population wasn't too keen on continuing with Ukraine. Happy to hear from a crimean what really went down.

The news we got could have had more to do with the international community trying to save face and spreading a narrative, rather than a large number of actual locals wanting to be part of Russia.

Re: U.S. fears China attack on Taiwan

#198

Post by whoooooo123 »

tialaramex wrote: post #178
slowmovintarget wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure what history books you are reading, but Britain did, in fact, have slavery, and traded in slaves during the American Revolution. Trade of slaves was not outlawed in Britain until 1807 and ownership of slaves was not outlawed in Britain until 1833.

History books about things that happened rather than, say, squinting hard to rationalise unhappy truths? Britain didn't have slavery†. The 1833 act abolishes slavery in the Colonies, not in Britain itself. The existence of slavery in the colonies is why there were slaves in America to seek freedom by fighting for the British there. So like I said, the British freed those on their side, while the colonists unsurprisin…

Another fun fact (I'm full of them today): while chattel slavery has never existed at a meaningful level in Britain, the specific act of holding someone in slavery wasn't technically made illegal here until 2009: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coroners_and_Justice_Act_200...

Re: U.S. fears China attack on Taiwan

#199

Post by whoooooo123 »

sneak wrote: post #109
gspr wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The anti-China rhetoric and propaganda in the USA has been steadily ramping up over the last 3-5 years as well, for better or worse. I don't think this is an accident or happenstance. Yeah, it's really strange that negative rhetoric has been ramping up against a government that is now running full-blown ethnic concentration camps in Xinjiang, is flagrantly stomping on the democratic rights of the people of Hong Kon…

It appears to have worked well for its intended purpose. For the record, the US imprisons its ethnic minorities in inhumane conditions (including labor camps and forced sterilization, just like China) at a per-capita rate 17x higher than China does. I think the disparity in public perception (in the US; I can't speak to China as I'm not there) of the two superpowers is telling.

That's great - now go to China and start publicly posting on the Internet about China's human rights violations (or better yet, actively campaigning against them) and see how long you last.

Re: U.S. fears China attack on Taiwan

#200

Post by whoooooo123 »

aphextron wrote: post #38
javert wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We can only hope for a diplomatic resolution That makes it seem like you want China to take Taiwan uncontested. I hope for either no conflict at all, or for Taiwan's allies to help defend it.

>"That makes it seem like you want China to take Taiwan uncontested." I, like any sane person, would like to avoid WWIII. It's easy to play armchair general with no skin in the game. But the reality is that there would be no support in the US for sending American soldiers to die for Taiwan. Let alone the nuclear ramifications. If Beijing decides to take it, we will sit here and watch. The same way we do currently as…

So at what point should the West get involved? Do you think that China is going to stop after it takes Taiwan?
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