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Elon Musk’s anti-union tweet from 2018 must be deleted: U.S. labor board

reuters.com

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Re: Elon Musk’s anti-union tweet from 2018 must be deleted: U.S. labor board

#391

Post by lupire »

6gvONxR4sf7o wrote: post #332
pmorici wrote: post #295

Calling this tweet "anti-union" seems like spin. It is pointing out facts that one might want to consider before deciding to unionize. The fact that employees lose stock options when they unionize isn't so much a threat as it is a fact about how unions work because historically unions are against any kind of incentive or merit pay so they refuse options as compensation. It is a fact that UAW hasn't negotiated options…

Correlation is not causation, and in this case it’s a stretch to argue that’s what he was saying. “Don’t vote union, you’ll have to move to Detroit!” Has anyone seen joining unions actually cause positions that got stock to stop getting stock? Is this like an overwhelmingly common thing I don’t know about?

It's a made up lie. Actors are in a union and they get profit-sharing and individual performance-based pay.

Re: Elon Musk’s anti-union tweet from 2018 must be deleted: U.S. labor board

#392

Post by CameronNemo »

arnath wrote: post #197
CameronNemo wrote: post #33

dang, can we change the link/title to https://www.reuters.com/article/idUSL4N2LN4L0 ? Snippet below: > Tesla CEO Musk's anti-union tweet from 2018 must be deleted: U.S. labor board > Tesla Inc Chief Executive Officer Elon Musk’s 2018 tweet threatening employees would lose their stock options if they formed a union was illegal and should be deleted, the U.S. National Labor Relations Board said on Thursday.

Aside from "watchdog" as opposed to NLRB, what's wrong with the title? The article describes a bunch of required actions besides just deleting the tweet.

I thought the register article was written in a clickbait way.

Reuters actually had the scoop over 24 hours before the register.

Re: Elon Musk’s anti-union tweet from 2018 must be deleted: U.S. labor board

#393

Post by Nimitz14 »

KaiserPro wrote: post #179
aborsy wrote: post #134

Working in France completely changed my view of unions. I sure hope the horrors I saw won’t happen to Tesla.

And yet, the level of inequity in france is nowhere near as much as USA. Sure there arn't as many mega rich, but then there arn't people hundreds of thousands of people being bankrupted by medical bills either.

The middle class is also much, much poorer.

Re: Elon Musk’s anti-union tweet from 2018 must be deleted: U.S. labor board

#394

Post by ryandrake »

lolthishuman wrote: post #389
clcaev wrote: post #314

The entire concept of unionization seems unnecessarily confrontational. It does not need to be this way. Corporations are creations of the state. There is nothing preventing the state to require significant representation of employees in every board of directors. This board representation could support management that better reflects employee participation, e.g. Sociocracy. In this way, labour and capital could work…

It automatically creates an adversarial relationship. Terrible way to live life on either side of that construct. No one should be forced to work anywhere. Which also means working isn’t a right. Work somewhere that works with you and establish a healthy relationship. Set expectations and be clear on what is desired. One spends much of their time working, to do it in such a way where a cordial relationship is not the…

In many companies, you don't need a union to make it adversarial: it's already an adversarial relationship. It's a war with only one side shooting. The union just attempts to arm the other side. It would be great if leadership and employees were actually on the same side (rather than just in words), with things like employee representation on the board, and fair bargaining for wages with equal power on either side, but that's just not a reality at most jobs.

Re: Elon Musk’s anti-union tweet from 2018 must be deleted: U.S. labor board

#395

Post by aksss »

riversflow wrote: post #371
andreygrehov wrote: post #298

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is the first time I hear about Amazon News account, but from a factual perspective, they are right, despite one like it or not. Sanders is indeed a powerful politician, which is what they said in the tweet. $11.75 vs. $15 is a 20% gap, which is quite a lot and is also a fact. Again, I'm looking at it purely from a factual perspective. It seems to me that the criticism mainly comes from people not liking AmazonNe…

How are they a “progressive workplace” from a factual perspective?

Well they support a national $15/hr minimum wage, for one thing, though the cynical side of me thinks this is more to close the door behind them on competition and will result in further closures of small local alternatives.

Re: Elon Musk’s anti-union tweet from 2018 must be deleted: U.S. labor board

#396

Post by pensatoio »

bendbro wrote: post #163

[flagged]

I can’t imagine any situation where collective bargaining would grant me a better outcome than negotiating on my own.

I understand unions for lower skill jobs in the private sector, but it’s a crazy play if you’re in a profession with a higher barrier for entry.

Blue or white collar, you have way more negotiating power than you think.

Re: Elon Musk’s anti-union tweet from 2018 must be deleted: U.S. labor board

#397

Post by 2-tpg »

riversflow wrote: post #375
2-tpg wrote: post #311

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the fact that Amazon warehouse / delivery employees have to urinate in bottles to meet deadlines? Amazon does not want its employees to piss into bottles. But sometimes employees (predominantly male I hope) do piss into bottles, because they did not plan correctly, or just had to go while on the road. If caught, these employees (and their managers) are then reprimanded. If they get a chance to defend themselves, of…

The warehouse/delivery worker abuse at amazon runs deep, and it goes far beyond employees peeing in bottles. Checkout the Frontline documentary, Amazon Empire: The Rise and Reign of Jeff Bezos [1] [1] https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/film/amazon-empire/

> it goes far beyond employees peeing in bottles.

No, but solid rhetorics. This is the part you give proof of the fact that Amazon have their workers pee in bottles to meet deadlines. Not point to something else entirely that goes far beyond the things you pose as facts, which are not. Don't look at that! Look at this documentary that goes far far beyond it. Well played! And solid one for PBS for exposing the worker abuse that Amazon is now in court for! We need the free press to save worker laws.

Re: Elon Musk’s anti-union tweet from 2018 must be deleted: U.S. labor board

#398

Post by Balgair »

natch wrote: post #355
hnarn wrote: post #319

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm a very pro-union guy, so I'll give my five cents just for the sake of discussion: Firstly, I don't know the context in which this was tweeted, but looking at it, it's not in my opinion egregiously or "obviously" anti-union, but the definition of this is of course a legal one and not a subjective one, so it doesn't really matter what any of us "think" is anti-union, what matters is the legal text in the region whe…

You're talking about whether the most visible champion of Dogecoin, whose formal title at his company is Techking, and who added a fart-on-demand feature to his products, and saying that one of his tweets regarding a currently non-existent party, a Tesla union organization, is unprofessional. Labels like "unprofessional" are repugnant to some people, because they have been, and continue to be, used to justify arbitra…

> You're talking about whether the most visible champion of Dogecoin, whose formal title at his company is Techking, and who added a fart-on-demand feature to his products, and saying that one of his tweets regarding a currently non-existent party, a Tesla union organization, is unprofessional.

You bring up a good point here and I think it applies to all of his ventures: Why trust anything the guy does?

However, when it comes to safety, the public must have trust. Very solid trust. Because 2+ tons of car at 70mph that claims to steer itself cannot be untrusted.

Re: Elon Musk’s anti-union tweet from 2018 must be deleted: U.S. labor board

#399

Post by fastball »

tsimionescu wrote: post #299
fastball wrote: post #253

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is required for "free" decision-making?

Making sure no one is strong arming or threatening, harassing, or bribing the ones who have to make that decision, nor thought leaders among them.

Yes, I would say that is kinda a given. Don't think Elon's tweet counts as any of these things though.

Re: Elon Musk’s anti-union tweet from 2018 must be deleted: U.S. labor board

#400

Post by ryandrake »

door100 wrote: post #309
aborsy wrote: post #134

Working in France completely changed my view of unions. I sure hope the horrors I saw won’t happen to Tesla.

The horrors of... a 35 hour workweek, 5 weeks paid vacation, 16 weeks paid maternity leave, universal healthcare, and no at-will employment?

You forget, with a union, the world's richest man might get richer every day at a slightly slower rate than he currently gets richer. That's the real horror!
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