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Myths About Introverts

jerrybrito.org

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Re: Myths About Introverts

#51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually, you'll find that in some places, it isn't rude to be straightforward and honest. And even blunt. You have to actually start insulting people to be considered 'rude' in those places. Introverts like those places.

Which places are those? Are you talking about geographical locations, or do you mean "places" like in a focus group or an R&D department? If there is a geographical location where the cultural norm is to be straightforward and honest, I would like to visit there to see what it is like.

Germany and the German-speaking world (Deutschosphere?) in general. In fact, the BBC had something on this recently

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-13545386

Re: Myths About Introverts

#52
Just somebody (presumably an introvert) denying common negative generalizations about introverts without providing any supporting references or analysis. Turns out (thank you, oblique63) it was an off-the-cuff list thought up by someone who read a self-help book and was inspired to "redefine [his] entire life in a new and positive context."

Seeing introversion as a preference or identity is fine as long as you have a nice consistently introverted life and that's exactly what you want, but it harks back to the day when everybody had their place and accepted their limitations and anyone who felt any conflict or frustration about it was "maladjusted." If you're introverted and want some of the benefits of extroversion, such as a bigger social network for locating jobs and meeting women, or if you discover that you really enjoy a hobby that has a large incidental but unavoidable social component, then you're supposed to realize those things are "just not you" and go home and read a book.

Introversion as an identity is a nice explanation when you really don't want to do something. "What, you don't want to go to the Nicki Minaj concert?" "Let me explain. You see, I'm an introvert...." But what explanation do you give yourself when you really want to go see a certain band but you think the social aspect will drain you so much it will be hard to enjoy? There's no simple "I like this" or "I don't like this." There's a conflict that can't be resolved. What do you do when you realize it's nice to have a big diverse circle of friends sometimes -- for trying to round people up for certain activities, or so you aren't limited to the tastes of your one or two really close friends -- but maintaining that social network is intimidating and draining and you don't know if you're up to it? Introversion starts to seem less like a matter of taste and more like a limitation you're fighting against.

It's nice to say you're a picky person who doesn't like superficial relationships, who only wants a handful of close friends you can engage with in a meaningful way, but then you plan a backpacking trip and realize there's some climbing involved and it isn't safe to go alone. You could limit yourself to whatever your friends like to do. But the trip sounds really cool, and now that you think about it, you're pretty sure you'd enjoy rock climbing in itself. Wait, there's a problem. Learning basic rock climbing doesn't intimidate you, but you will have to meet people who like climbing, meet enough of them and cultivate enough social connections to put together three or four people to do this hike. What would sound fun to an extrovert -- meet a bunch of new people who share my interests, yay! -- poses a tough decision for the introvert. Do I really want to do this? Will it be worth it? Am I even capable of doing it? It will involve a lot of social interaction, and I don't know if I can muster enough smalltalk and conviviality or if I'll get tired, zone out, fail to engage and be engaging.

That brings up another matter of "taste." It would be nice to say I'm simply bored by smalltalk, but I can't kid myself; it isn't that simple. I know that once in a while I do like smalltalk, and when I think about it my ability to enjoy a social situation has more to do with my mood going into it than the situation itself. I get bored when I'm not engaged, and I have difficulty engaging with people because anxiety and stress make me shut down. When I'm overflowing with positive feelings, I have no problem engaging with people and enjoying smalltalk. So the problem isn't smalltalk, unless I want to say that I'm stupid to enjoy it when I do, and right to be bored when it bores me.

I could resolve all these problems by having a consistent life and molding my tastes to coincide with my comfort zone. I could just happen to prefer hobbies that shelter me from social situations or bring me together with other introverts instead of forcing me into uncomfortable situations. It's great when it works out that way, and it's certainly a major factor in how I manage to enjoy life! But I chafe against it. I'm maladjusted. I don't like tailoring my life to my natural limitations any more than I like tailoring my life to other people's expectations. My introversion messes with me, so I mess with it right back. Sometimes, when I can afford the energy.

Re: Myths About Introverts

#53

Here's a myth held by introverts. Introverts (rightly) believe that extroverts don't understand them, but they don't understand extroverts as well as they think they do. Case in point, the commonly held belief on HN that extroverts mostly BS their way through life while the introverts are doing the real work. In reality we introverts probably don't understand how incredibly nuanced seemingly superficial relationships…

As an introvert, i understand very well how extroverts think. For years i tried to become more extroverted, only to discover at a certain point that it's a dysfunctional path that leads to a superficial, seemingly fullfilling but unfocused and non-goal-directed lives. The nuance of conversation is a charm, it fades fast. The way I see it is time management: life is short, do you want to spend most of it dealing with…

For years i tried to become more extroverted, only to discover at a certain point that it's a dysfunctional path that leads to a superficial, seemingly fullfilling but unfocused and non-goal-directed lives. The nuance of conversation is a charm, it fades fast.

If this is how you think extroverts are, then I would suggest that you don't understand very well how extroverts think.

As someone who spent his youth as an introvert and later discovered the joys of extroversion, introversion seems like a suffocating, lonely, and stunted existence. Do those years mean I understand how introverts think? Of course not. Introverts obviously don't think their lives are lonely or stunted. Instead, I have to view others' choices with humility and accept that their thinking will always be alien to me.

Re: Myths About Introverts

#54

Here's a myth held by introverts. Introverts (rightly) believe that extroverts don't understand them, but they don't understand extroverts as well as they think they do. Case in point, the commonly held belief on HN that extroverts mostly BS their way through life while the introverts are doing the real work. In reality we introverts probably don't understand how incredibly nuanced seemingly superficial relationships…

As an introvert, i understand very well how extroverts think. For years i tried to become more extroverted, only to discover at a certain point that it's a dysfunctional path that leads to a superficial, seemingly fullfilling but unfocused and non-goal-directed lives. The nuance of conversation is a charm, it fades fast. The way I see it is time management: life is short, do you want to spend most of it dealing with…

let's please just celebrate our differences rather than tear each other down. This is a real insult to anyone who doesn't consider themselves introverted...

Re: Myths About Introverts

#55
post #19

Sorry but I can't take the article seriously. The notion that everybody can simply be divided into either being an "Extrovert" or "Introvert" is very doubtful for me. Even if you accept this one dimensional personality description as being useful by itself; - is it constant (the same in all circumstances), - does it vary over time? - Is everyone either an "introvert" or an "extrovert" OR do people fit on a sliding sc…

The words "introvert" and "extrovert" have been used by a lot of people over the years, starting all the way back at Freud I think. If a modern scientist uses these words, though, they're probably talking about it in terms of the Big Five[1] personality model, which is mostly just identifying some observed clusters of traits with strong correlations that tend to persist over a person's life. People argue about whether there might be more emperical clusters worth adding, or whether they might be made more orthogonal but generally there's a good amount of rigor behind them, far more than IQ for instance.

Introversion/Extroversion is very much a matter of degree, just like pretty much any other human trait. It doesn't uniquely determine behavior by any means, humans are very complex creatures. However, there is a pretty strong correlation [2] between someone acting in an introverted or extroverted manner in one situation and acting the same way later.

[1]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Five_personality_traits

[2]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Correlation

EDIT: All of which isn't to say that people can't use those terms in pseudo-scientific ways, or that the author of the article isn't. After all, people use terms like 'mass' and 'gravity' in pseudo scientific ways too.

Re: Myths About Introverts

#56
post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which places are those? Are you talking about geographical locations, or do you mean "places" like in a focus group or an R&D department? If there is a geographical location where the cultural norm is to be straightforward and honest, I would like to visit there to see what it is like.

Germany and the German-speaking world (Deutschosphere?) in general. In fact, the BBC had something on this recently http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-13545386

Interesting. I've always gotten along well with Germans, but in reading that article, I can tell that I have embedded in my speech some of the pleasantries that annoy Germans. I'm even more interested in visiting Germany and the Netherlands than I already was.

Thanks to all three of you for your examples.

Re: Myths About Introverts

#57
post #32

The assumption that there's something wrong with not interacting with other people eagerly and often strikes me as oddly egotistical. Other people aren't alive solely for the enjoyment of extraverts. The "problem," if there is one, is that extraverts are uncomfortable and find it difficult to interact with introverts. But this is as much the fault of extraverted people as it is of introverted people. They speak a dif…

I was thinking pretty much the same thing. I'm guessing extroverts need to "fit in" a lot more than introverts, and this challenges the extroverts needs perhaps. Also it could be found that when you aren't being talked to, that there is something wrong with yourself, instead of it being the other person's issue. So perhaps it causes some issues that way too. I think society is sort of conditioned to think someone who doesn't socialize at a certain level, somehow has a problem. Which we are a society, socializing keeps us together, so its understood why this is probably seen as a bit more of an issue. Being introverted I like to maintain a low level of socializing, I do it when I want to, I have no problem doing it, its just not as much as other people. But not all people have that ability, and I think people assume the worst, that the person somehow needs "fixing" and isn't happy with their social life and doesn't know how to socialize. Where me, bottom line, I'm not talking to you cause I don't want to. Whether its because I find the person terribly annoying, or just can't think of anything worth while to say is dependent on the situation. Which is why I either really like extroverts or really hate them, they keep the conversation going and are fun, or they never get the damn point, I don't want to talk to you, and annoy the hell out of me.

Re: Myths About Introverts

#58

Myth #10 – Introverts can fix themselves and become Extroverts. I don't know if "fix" is the right word in the complete, but they can definitely change. I used to follow that list pretty closely - and while there's nothing intrinsically wrong with that, I realized that it can be extremely socially disadvantageous. Regardless of how smart someone is, it's an undeniable fact that in this world, almost all the time, you…

But do you enjoy acting extroverted? Do you enjoy gossipping and seeking out drama? Do you get bored when you've been alone for too long?

Saying the primary character traits of extroverts is gossipping and seeking drama is just silly. Extroverts make connections with many people (shallow extroverts are drama-seeking gossips), which most introverts simply can't understand. My wife, who is the premier example of an extrovert, has no interest in gossipping or in drama. I've seen far more drama in a group of forum-cruising introverts than in her life.

Re: Myths About Introverts

#59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As an introvert, i understand very well how extroverts think. For years i tried to become more extroverted, only to discover at a certain point that it's a dysfunctional path that leads to a superficial, seemingly fullfilling but unfocused and non-goal-directed lives. The nuance of conversation is a charm, it fades fast. The way I see it is time management: life is short, do you want to spend most of it dealing with…

I don't think you could have come up with a comment that more perfectly illustrated the GP's comments. An introvert trying to understand being an extrovert is like a white guy trying to understand what it's like to be black. It's not who you are, so no amount of pretending is going to give you a true understanding. I'm very much an introvert, but over the years, I've learned that networking is a critical part of bein…

[deleted]

Re: Myths About Introverts

#60

Myth #3 – Introverts are rude. Introverts often don’t see a reason for beating around the bush with social pleasantries. They want everyone to just be real and honest. Yes, this is often called being rude. It may be true that by this guys definition introverts don't mean to be rude, but if a person (introvert or otherwise) acts as described above, that is rude.

I think he was hitting on the notion that introverts might be quiet at a party and this is considered rude for not making the rounds and bullshitting with every one there. That might go against social norm, but it's not being rude.

I don't think anyone considers wallflowers rude.

Have you seen Beautiful Young Minds? There's a scene where one of the students learns he has made the next round. The narrator says "congratulations". They chat a bit, and as the narrator is leaving he says, "congratulations" again, and the student in a dismissive way says, "You already said that".

I think that's what most people see in introverts that is rude. Or when you say "Hi Tim" in the hall and he just looks away. Or if you ask "Can you pass the ketchup?" in the cafeteria and they say, "I prefer not to".

All of these are probably very honest responses, yet I think I'd bucket them as rude.

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