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Lawyers used sheepskin as anti-fraud device for hundreds of years

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Re: Lawyers used sheepskin as anti-fraud device for hundreds of years

#71

Post by [deleted] »

DistressedDrone wrote: post #26
SamBam wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If I give you $100, and we mark it on a stick, and then split it and give me the longer one, and then I throw away my half and split a new one that says you owe me $200, how do we resolve it when the halves come together and don't match? I say you made a new half-stick, and you say I did. Both parties in a contract can have an incentive to lie.

I think in this case one of the recipients has a monopoly on violence and doesn't care how much money you think they owe you.

[deleted]

Re: Lawyers used sheepskin as anti-fraud device for hundreds of years

#72

Post by thesuitonym »

krisoft wrote: post #49
hristov wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My understanding is that these were used as what we currently refer to as treasuries. I.e., debt that the government owes to an investor. So, if you want to lend the government some money, you get half a piece of wood with some notches indicating how much you lent. Then when it is time to collect you go to the government show them your piece of wood and if it matches you get your money plus whatever interest. So if t…

So it is in the best interest of the government to get a rasp and file some of of their side of the block. Nothing will match and thus they don’t have to pay.

Maybe in the short term, but long term it's best for a government to pay off its debts. Who would lend money to the government if it was well known that they will never pay back?

Re: Lawyers used sheepskin as anti-fraud device for hundreds of years

#73

Post by dls2016 »

torstenvl wrote: post #4
rudyfink wrote: post #2

As a related aside, split pieces of wood--so the holder could check and see the pieces matched up--were also used as an anti-fraud device ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tally_stick ). Apparently, these pieces of wood are were we get the term "stock." In case you ever wondered why the word for an ownership share is the same word as "stick, trunk, block of wood, or post" (Germanic / Dutch / Old English), this is appar…

So these non-fungible blocks that proved you had a stake... could you maybe trace back the transaction history for a piece of property using some kind of chain of these blocks?

I prefer Rai stones... the transaction history is encoded as an oral history.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rai_stones

Re: Lawyers used sheepskin as anti-fraud device for hundreds of years

#74

Post by pwg »

SamBam wrote: post #57
a_t48 wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let's say we cut notches perpedicular to where the split will be, and then split through the notches. If you cut more notches in your side of the wood, it will be obvious that you've done so - the two sides will fit together perfectly in shape and in grain, but one side will have extra notches. It's not like I could have filled in the notches on my piece.

Right. That's what I said in my middle paragraph. But if I simply throw away my half and make a new half, a court will have no way of knowing which was the original. (Unless each half was signed by both parties.)

> But if I simply throw away my half and make a new half

Your new half would not match together in the "split" part of the stick, so one could tell that /someone/ made a new half, but not necessarily which party was the forger.

Re: Lawyers used sheepskin as anti-fraud device for hundreds of years

#75

Post by mywittyname »

dylan604 wrote: post #70
weinzierl wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I now want Banksy to name my future endeavors. "If you’re thinking of writing in to ask Banksy to paint your sitting room or design your company logo - please don’t." I guess you are out of luck here, but if you don't mind aiding and abetting the commission of a trespass - maybe you can trade in. "If you’re thinking of writing in because you have privileged access to a secure facility that needs vandalising - pleas…

I didn’t say I wanted banksy to make art for me. I want him to make up a name. It was poignant. It used real words with all of the letters, and not some trendy drop the vowels BS

I bet you'd get exactly what you asked for, but not what you hoped for.

Re: Lawyers used sheepskin as anti-fraud device for hundreds of years

#76

Post by intrasight »

chrisseaton wrote: post #3
rudyfink wrote: post #2

As a related aside, split pieces of wood--so the holder could check and see the pieces matched up--were also used as an anti-fraud device ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tally_stick ). Apparently, these pieces of wood are were we get the term "stock." In case you ever wondered why the word for an ownership share is the same word as "stick, trunk, block of wood, or post" (Germanic / Dutch / Old English), this is appar…

I’ve never understood - what do you do if the tally sticks don’t match? You just know there’s a dispute but it doesn’t resolve the dispute does it? So what next?

If the two sticks don't match, then the two parties didn't mutually authenticate and then nothing further happens.You can't even say there's a dispute. You can't say anything.

Re: Lawyers used sheepskin as anti-fraud device for hundreds of years

#77

Post by [deleted] »

rudyfink wrote: post #2

As a related aside, split pieces of wood--so the holder could check and see the pieces matched up--were also used as an anti-fraud device ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tally_stick ). Apparently, these pieces of wood are were we get the term "stock." In case you ever wondered why the word for an ownership share is the same word as "stick, trunk, block of wood, or post" (Germanic / Dutch / Old English), this is appar…

[deleted]

Re: Lawyers used sheepskin as anti-fraud device for hundreds of years

#79

Post by syshum »

eigenket wrote: post #59
cybert00th wrote: post #58

The more we look, the more we learn. If that's one thing we can learn from modern archaeological methods, it's that past generations had their own levels of sophistication and advancement, and we'd be wise to remember this

Yeah, humans haven't really changed very much biologically in the last 100000 years or so. Its often easy to think that advanced problem solving abilities are relatively modern, but theres not really any reason to think you or I are smarter than someone 50k years ago.

One should also think about how stupid the average person is, realizing that half of them are even dumber than that....

Human advancement and civilization is brought forward by probably less than 10% of the population at any given time, the other 90% are either just going along for the ride or actively trying to destroy that advancement...

Re: Lawyers used sheepskin as anti-fraud device for hundreds of years

#80

Post by Arrath »

saalweachter wrote: post #63
weinzierl wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I now want Banksy to name my future endeavors. "If you’re thinking of writing in to ask Banksy to paint your sitting room or design your company logo - please don’t." I guess you are out of luck here, but if you don't mind aiding and abetting the commission of a trespass - maybe you can trade in. "If you’re thinking of writing in because you have privileged access to a secure facility that needs vandalising - pleas…

So you're saying that you first need to found your startup as a dystopian venture with a secure facility that needs vandelising, then rebrand your company around the art created?

That is deliciously vile.
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