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High IQs are associated with mental and physical disorders

scientificamerican.com

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Re: High IQs are associated with mental and physical disorders

#221

Post by rory »

JoeAltmaier wrote: post #200
rory wrote: post #5

> It’s also possible that people who join Mensa differ from other people in ways other than just IQ. For example, people preoccupied with intellectual pursuits may spend less time than the average person on physical exercise and social interaction, both of which have been shown to have broad benefits for psychological and physical health. Is Mensa really an "intellectual pursuit"? I'm not sure exactly what Mensa does…

Its popular to imagine that smart people have some pitiable deficits. I'm afraid that many, many smart people are doing just fine. If they join a club, its often for the same reason anyone else joins a club - to meet people with like interests.

I'm not drawing a distinction between smart and not-smart people here. I'm suggesting that perhaps the 99% of people qualified for Mensa who don't join are better-adjusted than the 1% who do join.

Re: High IQs are associated with mental and physical disorders

#222

Post by lima »

whatshisface wrote: post #31
lima wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes. It's a weird bunch (not in a bad way!). I went to their meetings a couple times by invitation, and it never really "clicked" - for many of their members, their MENSA membership and related activities are a big part of their identity and their life, and I wasn't able to connect. I heard the same thing from a couple of friends who also met their entrance criteria, and there's certainly a lot of selection bias. Whi…

Where are all of the satisfied Mensa members? Every time Mensa gets brought up a whole swarm of dissatisfied former members shows up to explain how it's not worth attending, and yet the organization persists. What's the other side of the story?

The friend who invited me was (and is) a happy member - he skips the large meetings/gatherings and simply uses the network to find folk with similar interests.

Re: High IQs are associated with mental and physical disorders

#224

Post by FabHK »

slg wrote: post #216
FabHK wrote: post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Keep in mind that there is huge variety among the national Mensa groups, and presumably also within a country. I haven't gotten around to listening to that podcast, but from what I gather it is not representative of Mensa, either.

I tried not to paint with too broad a brush. There are clearly people who join for those "intellectual pursuit" reasons, but that doesn't negate the people who join for less noble reasons. I have no idea of the percentage breakdown in the two, but the second group clearly does exist and can be a real problem.

> I tried not to paint with too broad a brush.

Yes, your comment seemed fair! I was referring to the podcast itself. However, instead of responding further, let me first listen to the podcast, rather than relying on second-hand assessments.

Re: High IQs are associated with mental and physical disorders

#225

Post by johnfn »

yt-sdb wrote: post #161
toyota86 wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> people insecure enough to join an IQ-restricted club I don't understand this sentiment. There are race/ethnicity-restricted clubs, men-only clubs, athletic clubs, equestrian clubs, farmers clubs, car ownership clubs. However, when it's about IQ (something which you say you hold in disdain), suddenly out come the insults. Insecure nerds, right? They only have their insignificant test scores, they must be a despicabl…

Maybe this analogy will help: joining a high-IQ club is not like joining just any athletic club. It's like joining an athletic club that's restricted based on a metric. What if you wanted to join a hiking club in your area but found out the only way to join was to prove you hiked X mountains first? I could see why that would turn some people off. It's not the interests; it's the cutoff.

Huh? Plenty of clubs are like this, especially athletic clubs, but all sorts of clubs have cutoffs. E.g. improv clubs have auditions, chess clubs have ELO rankings, and so forth.

Re: High IQs are associated with mental and physical disorders

#226

Post by johnfn »

AlexCoventry wrote: post #172
toyota86 wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> people insecure enough to join an IQ-restricted club I don't understand this sentiment. There are race/ethnicity-restricted clubs, men-only clubs, athletic clubs, equestrian clubs, farmers clubs, car ownership clubs. However, when it's about IQ (something which you say you hold in disdain), suddenly out come the insults. Insecure nerds, right? They only have their insignificant test scores, they must be a despicabl…

> There is nothing wrong with one valuing their own high IQ test score. To me it suggests someone who's more concerned with being something special than doing something interesting. It seems like a kind of narcissism, and suggests that they're probably pretty boring.

How do you feel about identity based clubs such as LGBTQ-positive spaces etc?

Re: High IQs are associated with mental and physical disorders

#227

Post by austincheney »

comp_throw7 wrote: post #215
austincheney wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Many test scores (e.g. ACT) are heavily IQ/g-predictive. Is there evidence of that? Many university recruiters at some of the most prestigious schools believe otherwise.

Yes, the evidence is quite strong: https://randomcriticalanalysis.com/2015/06/18/on-sat-act-iq-...

> The SAT – ASVAB correlation is quite strong and it is probably weakened by range restriction effects. People with lower IQ scores and/or lower HS GPA are much less likely to sit for the SAT.

That's a bullshit guess.

More importantly that study did not account for performance disparities versus preparation.

Re: High IQs are associated with mental and physical disorders

#228

Post by austincheney »

FabHK wrote: post #217
austincheney wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Many test scores (e.g. ACT) are heavily IQ/g-predictive. Is there evidence of that? Many university recruiters at some of the most prestigious schools believe otherwise.

> Many university recruiters at some of the most prestigious schools believe otherwise. Is there evidence for that? As has been pointed out, some national Mensas accept standardised tests as a substitute for an IQ test. For references, see here eg.: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S01602... Wikipedia: Some measures of educational aptitude correlate highly with IQ tests – for instance, Frey & Det…

The first paragraph of that Wikipedia article affirms my opinion:

> The correlation between IQ scores and grades is about .50. This means that the explained variance is 25%. Achieving good grades depends on many factors other than IQ, such as "persistence, interest in school, and willingness to study" (p. 81).

While that paragraph specifically mentions school grades instead a more narrow subset of certain specific tests the point still stands as affirmed by the APA. The numbers you quoted from the third paragraph allow are only about 80% aligned. That is a tiny bit better than half between perfection and a random guess.

The unfortunate reality is that performance on those tests is primarily a direct correlation of time and money spent on preparation specifically for those tests. A major differentiator between those standardized tests and many general IQ tests is centrality versus assessment distribution. You wouldn't for example test creativity with a multiple choice question with only one correct answer the same for everybody.

Look, most people who are from a higher income population want to believe that standardized tests are a fair reflection of intelligence, because with enough practice and preparation they can score higher and thus believe they are more intelligent than the population at large. If the population at large spent less effort preparing for the test then its value as a tool of performance compared to other people is less valid. That is selection bias.

Re: High IQs are associated with mental and physical disorders

#229

Post by carabiner »

mamon wrote: post #127
mhh__ wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a weird one. There does seem to be evidence in support of the variation hypothesis, but merely mentioning its existence while not being a woman is enough to get you sacked. The thing I don't get about that, or at least I obviously do get it but it lead to think, surely if you were hiring in volume you might be better off hiring women anyway since you can more precisely know what kind of candidates you want to…

Variation hypothesis actually makes sense from evolutionary point of view: you need as many women as you can get to produce offsprings, but only small number of men suffices to impregnate them all. So men are disposable, therefore they are where the mother nature does its risky experiments.

This may be true, but I suggest you keep this to yourself. We also see that college majors with the highest average IQ (like Physics, Engineering) have the least women: http://www.randalolson.com/2014/06/25/average-iq-of-students...

Re: High IQs are associated with mental and physical disorders

#230

Post by asidiali »

chrisco255 wrote: post #218
asidiali wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I said it’s not just about you. Some things in communities take cooperation, you know?

You have not addressed any of my points and you're just reiterating a trope without providing any critical reasoning. A person who has contracted Covid and gotten over it is almost assuredly less likely to become contagious again than someone who has had the mRNA therapy but not contracted the actual virus. You have no idea what the long-term risks of RNA therapy are. They are brand new. I might change my mind in 10…

I did directly address your very first trope: that you claim it’s solely a decision for yourself, when it’s not.

As for the rest of your complaints, I can’t manage to find the patience or empathy to respond in as productive of a manner as others[1] have already done in this same thread.

Good luck to you, wishing you good health. Glad your parents recovered well.

[1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26573727

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