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High IQs are associated with mental and physical disorders

scientificamerican.com

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Re: High IQs are associated with mental and physical disorders

#211

Post by JoeAltmaier »

Lots of hating on Mensa here (which sadly smacks of 'sour grapes'). But its a club like many others (e.g. Methodist Mens' Club) that is arranged around a commonality, not a specific activity. Its not perfect, but what club is?

Sure some folks have anecdotes about a poor local branch. You get out what you put in I think. If you want more interesting local meetings, then perhaps volunteer to find a speaker or event? Or even speak yourself?

Mensa members are smart, sure. But what does that mean? I once bought a book of 'Mensa puzzles' published by the organization (by Dr. Salny anyway, their national head). I went through it from end to end, and figured out most of the puzzles. They ranged from wordplay to story problems to logical reasoning and on and on. In the back were the solutions, and the percentage of Mensa members tested that got them right.

This was the most interesting part. For the math and arithmetic problems, from 10% to 25% of Mensa members got them wrong. How could that be right? Well, because (tested) intelligence isn't just about math. It ranges all over the map.

And so do Mensa members. They have curiosity about the whole range of the human condition. And (good) member meetings are all about that - discussing and enlightening and disputing things, to a deeper level perhaps than folks normally get at a family dinner or meetup at a bar.

Anyway for what it's worth the discussion here is more interesting for folks' reaction to Mensa, than for any real insight into what Mensa is about.

Re: High IQs are associated with mental and physical disorders

#212

Post by toss1 »

chrisco255 wrote: post #99
SimeVidas wrote: post #19

> Although the reasons are not fully understood, they also tend to live longer, healthier lives, and are less likely to experience negative life events such as bankruptcy. I’ll tell you why. Smart people listen to experts. Dumb people listen to other dumb people based on feeling. Case in point, the current pandemic. High-IQ people will get vaccinated. The people who won’t because of various conspiracy theories and mi…

I am not getting vaccinated, because I've analyzed that my odds of dying of Covid-19 at my age and health are less than my odds of dying in a car wreck. And I'm comfortable with that risk as opposed to the unknown long-term risks of RNA therapy.

Incomplete evaluation.

* Death is only a small part of the risk. COVID-19 is not just a respiratory disease, it is more of a blood disease, and can permanently damage many organs.

* Lung damage can be severe and permanent, as in worse Smokers' Lung than heavy long-term smokers, even for large numbers of asymptomatic cases. [1], [2]

* Extended long-COVID can occur even after very mild cases. Initial data shows that these are significantly reduced by the vaccine [6]

* it is not just about you, but about you not becoming a vector. Public health matters to a society, you enjoy the benefits of the society, and share it's duty to contribute. Don't shirk.

* mRNA vaccines are not new, having been first published in 1989 [3][4] and in numerous human trials since 2011. Any substantial risks with this technology would have already shown up [5]. mRNA vaccines do not alter your DNA and are very specific, and I'd say likely more safe than standard weakened- or dead-virus vaccines.

[1] https://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/health/conditions-and-diseas...

[2] https://www.ibtimes.com/some-covid-19-survivors-lungs-worse-...

[3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RNA_vaccine

[4] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC297778/

[5] https://medicalxpress.com/news/2020-12-mrna-vaccine-safety.h...

[6] https://www.webmd.com/vaccines/covid-19-vaccine/news/2021031...

Re: High IQs are associated with mental and physical disorders

#214

Post by rory »

silicon2401 wrote: post #192
rory wrote: post #5

> It’s also possible that people who join Mensa differ from other people in ways other than just IQ. For example, people preoccupied with intellectual pursuits may spend less time than the average person on physical exercise and social interaction, both of which have been shown to have broad benefits for psychological and physical health. Is Mensa really an "intellectual pursuit"? I'm not sure exactly what Mensa does…

> but maybe people insecure enough to join an IQ-restricted club are more likely to be those who suffer from setbacks in other parts of their lives. to me this reads similar to the old misconception that all bullies are insecure (it's often quite the opposite). what makes you think that people engaging in a group based on what they feel is a big part of their identity are insecure? Do you think gay people in pride pa…

> Do you think gay people in pride parades, minorities in various race groups, etc are insecure?

Well, uh, yeah, sort of.. I thought the whole point of gay/ethnic/etc pride events was to overcome the insecurity caused by marginalization in society. Is that not the case?

Re: High IQs are associated with mental and physical disorders

#215

Post by comp_throw7 »

austincheney wrote: post #117
centimeter wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> My initial assessment is that there isn’t any correlation between IQ and test scores This is completely false - I'm not sure how you got that assessment. Many test scores (e.g. ACT) are heavily IQ/g-predictive. SAT used to be better at predicting IQ/g but it's still pretty good. g-factor is the single largest predictor of academic success (which, these days, is mediated mostly by test scores).

> Many test scores (e.g. ACT) are heavily IQ/g-predictive. Is there evidence of that? Many university recruiters at some of the most prestigious schools believe otherwise.

Yes, the evidence is quite strong: https://randomcriticalanalysis.com/2015/06/18/on-sat-act-iq-...

Re: High IQs are associated with mental and physical disorders

#216

Post by slg »

FabHK wrote: post #189
slg wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People curious about Mensa should check out Jamie Loftus's podcast My Year In Mensa[1]. She is a writer/journalist/comedian who wanted to investigate the organization. She passed the test, joined Mensa, and was immediately ostracized once she began reporting on her experience. I'll just charitably summarize it to say that there are a variety of reasons why people join Mensa and many join for reasons outside what we m…

Keep in mind that there is huge variety among the national Mensa groups, and presumably also within a country. I haven't gotten around to listening to that podcast, but from what I gather it is not representative of Mensa, either.

I tried not to paint with too broad a brush. There are clearly people who join for those "intellectual pursuit" reasons, but that doesn't negate the people who join for less noble reasons. I have no idea of the percentage breakdown in the two, but the second group clearly does exist and can be a real problem.

Re: High IQs are associated with mental and physical disorders

#217

Post by FabHK »

austincheney wrote: post #117
centimeter wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> My initial assessment is that there isn’t any correlation between IQ and test scores This is completely false - I'm not sure how you got that assessment. Many test scores (e.g. ACT) are heavily IQ/g-predictive. SAT used to be better at predicting IQ/g but it's still pretty good. g-factor is the single largest predictor of academic success (which, these days, is mediated mostly by test scores).

> Many test scores (e.g. ACT) are heavily IQ/g-predictive. Is there evidence of that? Many university recruiters at some of the most prestigious schools believe otherwise.

> Many university recruiters at some of the most prestigious schools believe otherwise.

Is there evidence for that?

As has been pointed out, some national Mensas accept standardised tests as a substitute for an IQ test.

For references, see here eg.: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S01602...

Wikipedia:

Some measures of educational aptitude correlate highly with IQ tests – for instance, Frey & Detterman (2004) reported a correlation of 0.82 between g (general intelligence factor) and SAT scores; other research found a correlation of 0.81 between g and GCSE scores, with the explained variance ranging "from 58.6% in Mathematics and 48% in English to 18.1% in Art and Design".

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intelligence_quotient#Social_c...

Re: High IQs are associated with mental and physical disorders

#218

Post by chrisco255 »

asidiali wrote: post #180
chrisco255 wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The RNA therapy doesn't stop you from being contagious. And yes, it IS about me, because it's something being injected into my body. We are all going to get Covid at some point, if you haven't noticed. I can't put that genie back in the bottle. If your risk profile deems that the vaccine is worth it for YOU, then YOU do it. Don't pressure other people to. Their health choices is none of your business.

I said it’s not just about you. Some things in communities take cooperation, you know?

You have not addressed any of my points and you're just reiterating a trope without providing any critical reasoning. A person who has contracted Covid and gotten over it is almost assuredly less likely to become contagious again than someone who has had the mRNA therapy but not contracted the actual virus.

You have no idea what the long-term risks of RNA therapy are. They are brand new. I might change my mind in 10 years. But right now, I'm not getting an mRNA therapy against a virus that both my parents have already survived in their 60s. I'm not getting an mRNA therapy against a 1 in a million chance of dying, in particular when the mRNA therapy itself isn't 100%. It's not going to save anyone's life and it's not prevent anyone from contracting Covid-19.

Re: High IQs are associated with mental and physical disorders

#219

Post by chrisco255 »

asidiali wrote: post #201
smeej wrote: post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a difference between requesting that something be injected into your body and something injecting itself into your body against your will, and it's disingenuous to conflate them.

You’re right...the latter is far worse!

Really? You can think of no instances of people choosing to inject themselves with a substance that subsequently causes them harm? And far worse harm than a few days sick in bed.

Re: High IQs are associated with mental and physical disorders

#220

Post by FabHK »

chrisco255 wrote: post #99
SimeVidas wrote: post #19

> Although the reasons are not fully understood, they also tend to live longer, healthier lives, and are less likely to experience negative life events such as bankruptcy. I’ll tell you why. Smart people listen to experts. Dumb people listen to other dumb people based on feeling. Case in point, the current pandemic. High-IQ people will get vaccinated. The people who won’t because of various conspiracy theories and mi…

I am not getting vaccinated, because I've analyzed that my odds of dying of Covid-19 at my age and health are less than my odds of dying in a car wreck. And I'm comfortable with that risk as opposed to the unknown long-term risks of RNA therapy.

Serious question: How is a mRNA vaccine different from getting a cold, where the cold virus, which is mostly genetic material wrapped up, induces your cells to produce it?

Well, the mRNA vaccine only produces some parts of a whole virus, so it seems less risky. What makes it more risky, in your assessment?

What long-term risks are introduced by "RNA therapy" that we aren't bombarded with all day?

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