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The dispassionate developer

blog.ploeh.dk

161–170 of 262 posts

Re: The dispassionate developer

#161

I'm betting on this article being controversial here somewhat. The point on OSS is hilariously true though. Like, everyone does realize that the tech giants just found a way to make the community work for them and to make money off the backs of it right? OSS is great for almost everyone, don't get me wrong, but in whole, the largest tech companies in the world have gotten an entire community to test, fix, and develop…

The thing is, bulk of OSS development is paid by big companies. Based ok FOSS developpers survey, we can safely say that majority of OSS developers are paid for that work. And a lot of those money goes from bif companies.

Practically, these are not in free time weekend projects. Tech people are really invested in mythology of it all being done for free or mythology of everyone having side project on top of work. Neither is reality.

Re: The dispassionate developer

#162
post #145
post #10

Working in the industry kills one's passion. It did for me.

Agreed. It's kind of assembly-line development now for me. Design by committee, break up tasks into tickets, estimate how long it'll take, sprint, sprint, sprint until done, monitor releases, add more tickets, and continue ad infinitum.

You make it sound so smooth

Re: The dispassionate developer

#163
post #154

I like the article overall but I'm not sold on the passion ethos section as it was written. The author hints that they wouldn't want a surgeon who is passionate because they should be making rational decisions. But IMO passion isn't all about making an on the spot emotional decision without thinking things through. It's about their willingness to continue learning and advancing their craft because they have the motiv…

Meh, the surgeon obsessed with self promotion and status seeking might not be the best one as they may be more focused on themselves than the task at hand.

> Meh, the surgeon obsessed with self promotion and status seeking might not be the best one as they may be more focused on themselves than the task at hand.

The ones I've talked with are more interested in the implementation details, changing lives for the better and sharing what they've learned so everyone as a whole can rise.

Their practices are also wildly successful without content promotion and no to very little social media presence. These are the folks doing 750+ surgeries a year while being surrounded by relevant cases all the time. Basically total immersion in their field and then openly sharing everything with their colleagues.

Re: The dispassionate developer

#164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We're having a bit of a debate about this internally as the company I work for is struggling to hire good candidates. For a while we've had a take-home test and that has increased our success rate somewhat. But as you say, we really don't want to lay unreasonable expectations on people who may have other obligations, but we've had many people in the past who've interviewed very well but turned out to be completely in…

> We're having a bit of a debate about this internally as the company I work for is struggling to hire good candidates. What's the compensation like? Stock? > For a while we've had a take-home test and that has increased our success rate somewhat. But as you say, we really don't want to lay unreasonable expectations on people who may have other obligations You'll also find out that the people you really want to hire…

A lot of senior engineers would refuse to do a fizzbuzz. I'm really not seeing the problem here.

Re: The dispassionate developer

#166

>As you start to ponder the implied ethos, the stranger it gets. Would you like engineers to be passionate as they design new bridges? Would you like a surgeon to be passionate as she operates on you? Would you like judges to be passionate as they pass sentence on your friend? The answer is yes. In terms of engineers and passion, I would bet that an engineer who is passionate about designing bridges would be one that…

There's "passion" and there's "professionalism". I would categorise many of the activities you mention under the latter. Passion isn't the only reason to try to be good at what you do and get ahead. Pride, ambition, a sense of responsibility, etc. are all good reasons too, and it's easier to associate them with surgeons and judges. "Passion" is just a bit of a weird word to use when it comes to such work, maybe because it's often associated with creative endeavours.

Re: The dispassionate developer

#167

I'm betting on this article being controversial here somewhat. The point on OSS is hilariously true though. Like, everyone does realize that the tech giants just found a way to make the community work for them and to make money off the backs of it right? OSS is great for almost everyone, don't get me wrong, but in whole, the largest tech companies in the world have gotten an entire community to test, fix, and develop…

> Like, everyone does realize that the tech giants just found a way to make the community work for them and to make money off the backs of it right?

People are starting to realize this, but to understand it it's important to disambiguate "free" and "open source" software.

See https://www.boringcactus.com/2020/08/13/post-open-source.htm... for one perspective.

Re: The dispassionate developer

#168
post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Taking that a step further, we often actively discourage looking at OSS contributions during resume review for the same reason we don't offer take home interview assignments: it's biased against people who don't have a whole lot of extra time at home. When we have done either of the above, the singles who work part time have a bunch of time to perfect their work suddenly have a lot to show over the single parents who…

We're having a bit of a debate about this internally as the company I work for is struggling to hire good candidates. For a while we've had a take-home test and that has increased our success rate somewhat. But as you say, we really don't want to lay unreasonable expectations on people who may have other obligations, but we've had many people in the past who've interviewed very well but turned out to be completely in…

Our take-home obviously isn't a trade secret, so we have three trivial problems in ours:

1. Write code that takes in a rectangle, coordinate, and distance, and tells if that coordinate is within the distance of the rectangle.

2. Determine whether a string has permutations which are palindromes. (I'm of the opinion this one is too simple, but it's been fascinating seeing what mental gymnastics some developers will go through to solve this problem)

3. Write a CLI dice game (we provide the rules) in which the computer player wins 70% of the time. Make the method by which the computer cheats undetectable (of course this is impossible, but candidates just give it a best shot and we talk about their approach in the interview).

Assuming the test passes muster, we have three interviews right now, I think. One with managers to talk about the role, one with senior devs outside the team to perform the technical interview, and one with the devs in the team to talk shop.

In the technical interview, we primarily go through their test solutions (we do no whiteboard coding aside from reviewing the test and even that's very loose - not actual code). We have hired candidates before who have failed some of these tasks (mainly our candidates have trouble with #1) but who showed a capacity for being able to think on their feet and correct their mistakes during the interview. Of course a candidate who aces the test is going to have an advantage, but absent having the right answers, quick thinking/adaptability is probably the #2 trait we look for that seems to be a good predictor for developer success.

Every candidate we've hired through our process has been a success (which could be dumb luck, since none of us are super experienced/knowledgeable interviewers either, but we wing it best we can) and the take-home (and, equally importantly, the technical interview) has absolutely helped us weed out candidates with impressive CVs whose test results did not measure up.

Re: The dispassionate developer

#169
If a company is looking for an open source work in the candidate CV it means they want to know if that person is keen on providing work for free. It means that the candidate shouldn't have problems staying over time without pay because it is his or hers passion.

There is a distinction between passion and exploitation. You can be passionate without having to give away your labour for free. Big corporations want people to work on open source because it saves them R&D money. Some projects take years to develop and that costs millions had the companies had to pay salaries and taxes, but instead they can just appropriate the project once it is mature enough, pat the developers on the back and then make billions off of it without sharing a penny.

You can be passionate and develop your own business, own projects without having to share them and saving corporations money.

To level the playing field big corporations should be required to pay royalties to open source contributors.

Re: The dispassionate developer

#170
post #10

Working in the industry kills one's passion. It did for me.

This is true of most things, I've noticed. My neighbor is an amazing carpenter. He makes beautiful furniture from exotic pieces of wood he's had for 10 years just waiting to be used on that perfect project. I told him he could make a fortune selling things like what he's got in his living room, but he just shrugged and said it would take away all the fun. He's right.

This reminds me of the parable of the Mexican fisherman and the Harvard MBA:

'An American investment banker was at the pier of a small coastal Mexican village when a small boat with just one fisherman docked. Inside the small boat were several large yellowfin tuna. The American complimented the Mexican on the quality of his fish and asked how long it took to catch them.

The Mexican replied, “only a little while.”

The American then asked why didn’t he stay out longer and catch more fish?

The Mexican said he had enough to support his family’s immediate needs.

The American then asked, “but what do you do with the rest of your time?”

The Mexican fisherman said, “I sleep late, fish a little, play with my children, take siestas with my wife, Maria, and stroll into the village each evening where I sip wine, and play guitar with my amigos. I have a full and busy life.”

The American scoffed. “I have an MBA from Harvard, and can help you,” he said. “You should spend more time fishing, and with the proceeds, buy a bigger boat. With the proceeds from the bigger boat, you could buy several boats, and eventually you would have a fleet of fishing boats. Instead of selling your catch to a middle-man, you could sell directly to the processor, eventually opening up your own cannery. You could control the product, processing, and distribution,” he said. “Of course, you would need to leave this small coastal fishing village and move to Mexico City, then Los Angeles, and eventually to New York City, where you will run your expanding enterprise.”

The Mexican fisherman asked, “But, how long will this all take?”

To which the American replied, “Oh, 15 to 20 years or so.”

“But what then?” asked the Mexican.

The American laughed and said, “That’s the best part. When the time was right, you would announce an IPO, and sell your company stock to the public and become very rich. You would make millions!”

“Millions – then what?”

The American said, “Then you could retire. Move to a small coastal fishing village where you could sleep late, fish a little, play with your kids, take siestas with your wife, and stroll to the village in the evenings where you could sip wine and play guitar with your amigos.”'

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