Reddit is banning any Aimee Challenor mention. UK public figure and Reddit admin • Hacker News Board

Re: Reddit is banning any Aimee Challenor mention. UK public figure and Reddit admin

#211

Post by hi5eyes » Tue, Mar 23, 2021, 6:44 PM UTC

proc0 wrote: post #109

sir_bearington wrote: post #28

The irony is that I almost certainly would have zero idea who this person was or the existence of this controversy were it not for this crackdown. On one hand I can empathize with people seeing someone they know have negative press about them shared on a site they run and wanting to do something. But I thought the point of professionalism was refraining from this kind of behavior and applying rules consistently even…

I've said many times on here, people seem to not believe it. Banning literally achieves the opposite of what it intends to do... hell, if I was a marketer I would use banning and censorship as a kind of promotion/campaign tool. But nooo, people think with feelings, and the word that needs banning just sounds so horrible and is so offensive, so lets iron fist everyone into forgetting it... lol.

no one will on here or reddit will remember this situation in a week.the only part of the internet that will care past a week is most likely the sites like gab, and we all know what they think of lgbtq+

banning definitely works, its not like reddit's reputation for mod abuse isn't unknown [1]

1. https://www.theverge.com/2016/11/23/13739026/reddit-ceo-stev...

Re: Reddit is banning any Aimee Challenor mention. UK public figure and Reddit admin

#212

Post by koonsolo » Tue, Mar 23, 2021, 6:48 PM UTC

subsubzero wrote: post #95

Reached out last week by a recruiter from reddit, guess I'll never work there. I refuse to work for a company where this kind of stuff is going on. Vote with your feet, and choose not to work at places like this. Vote with your hands and choose not to browse and be a user of sites like this.

Good idea! Just removed the app.

Re: Reddit is banning any Aimee Challenor mention. UK public figure and Reddit admin

#213

Post by howinteresting » Tue, Mar 23, 2021, 6:50 PM UTC

i_haz_rabies wrote: post #188

howinteresting wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, plainly. It's not even close.

I'm not saying you're wrong. I'm saying you won't always be right.

I'm fine with some epistemic humility but not so much as to cause severe inaction. In this case it is completely justified.

Re: Reddit is banning any Aimee Challenor mention. UK public figure and Reddit admin

#214

Post by grawprog » Tue, Mar 23, 2021, 6:51 PM UTC

jonfw wrote: post #79

high_derivative wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And these employees are deleting subreddits (e.g. gender critical), suppress media they don't like..it's really surprising reddit has not found attention the same way twitter or facebook have. Maybe because of their political leanings.

People have been complaining about reddit's moderation for years, but I think due to the anonymity it's not being looked at the same way as twitter or Facebook. It's closer to a tabloid than a newspaper

>It's closer to a tabloid than a newspaper

Except it's owned by one of the larger media companies out there and has ties to most of them through their connections to the associated press.

They're closer to actual publishers than twitter or Facebook are to be honest.

Re: Reddit is banning any Aimee Challenor mention. UK public figure and Reddit admin

#215

Post by stonecraftwolf » Tue, Mar 23, 2021, 6:51 PM UTC

slibhb wrote: post #184

howinteresting wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The people who otherwise support trans people, but think 'affirmation-only' approaches are the wrong way to go This is a contradiction in terms. Supporting trans people means believing that transition is not some sort of "regrettable outcome". > are forced to forums/subs filled with people who are unapologetically transphobic. The discussion there will often lead the moderate opinions to radicalization. You are the…

> This is a contradiction in terms. Supporting trans people means believing that transition is not some sort of "regrettable outcome". No one is saying transition is a "regrettable outcome". What people are saying is that some people may think they are trans and then change their minds later. In these cases a watchful-waiting approach is better because it may allow the person to avoid life-altering decisions like sur…

Something like less than 1% of trans people regret transition, and of those half of them regret it because of social costs, i.e., bigotry from transphobes, and another big chunk regret that they transitioned as binary when they were in fact non-binary or vice versa. Fundamental to your argument is the idea that we should not trust trans people about their lives or their feelings. It’s bigotry.

Whether you’re aware of it or not, your argument is disingenuous, unscientific, gaslighting propaganda pushed by bigots, and it has the direct result of harming trans people.

Re: Reddit is banning any Aimee Challenor mention. UK public figure and Reddit admin

#216

Post by howinteresting » Tue, Mar 23, 2021, 6:52 PM UTC

axguscbklp wrote: post #192

howinteresting wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The people who otherwise support trans people, but think 'affirmation-only' approaches are the wrong way to go This is a contradiction in terms. Supporting trans people means believing that transition is not some sort of "regrettable outcome". > are forced to forums/subs filled with people who are unapologetically transphobic. The discussion there will often lead the moderate opinions to radicalization. You are the…

But for some people, transition is a regrettable outcome, even in the very literal sense that they do regret it. "affirmation-only" would mean affirming even people who actually would end up regretting a transition. The technology does not exist to actually make a man into a woman or a woman into a man.

That's not what affirmation-only means. It means supporting people as they come to terms with whatever the discrepancy between their phenotypical and subconscious sex characteristics.

Re: Reddit is banning any Aimee Challenor mention. UK public figure and Reddit admin

#217

Post by rorykoehler » Tue, Mar 23, 2021, 6:52 PM UTC

howinteresting wrote: post #132

km3r wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Too many times ration discussion critical on parts of the trans rights movement is heavily downvoted or banned. The people who otherwise support trans people, but think 'affirmation-only' approaches are the wrong way to go, are forced to forums/subs filled with people who are unapologetically transphobic. The discussion there will often lead the moderate opinions to radicalization. Of course parts of gay culture can…

> The people who otherwise support trans people, but think 'affirmation-only' approaches are the wrong way to go This is a contradiction in terms. Supporting trans people means believing that transition is not some sort of "regrettable outcome". > are forced to forums/subs filled with people who are unapologetically transphobic. The discussion there will often lead the moderate opinions to radicalization. You are the…

I have a perspective you may find interesting. First I don’t support or attack trans people specifically. I just think people should live and let live so in that regard I do support trans. I have and do socialise with trans people on occasion and we get along fine. With that out of the way I would like to highlight that through ignorance I have many questions about trans. These questions stem from purely curious thought though I have identified that some of them may be considered offensive to trans people. There is no forum in the world where I can ask these questions without it devolving into a mud slinging contest. I’ve seen it numerous times on various platforms. I literally don’t know enough about trans to form an opinion and have no way of educating myself but am somehow required to explicitly support trans. It’s an impossible situation. I defer to benefit of the doubt but I could never conclusively get behind trans rights because I’m too uneducated on the topic. This represents a fundamental limit for the movement IMO.

Re: Reddit is banning any Aimee Challenor mention. UK public figure and Reddit admin

#218

Post by howinteresting » Tue, Mar 23, 2021, 6:53 PM UTC

slibhb wrote: post #184

howinteresting wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The people who otherwise support trans people, but think 'affirmation-only' approaches are the wrong way to go This is a contradiction in terms. Supporting trans people means believing that transition is not some sort of "regrettable outcome". > are forced to forums/subs filled with people who are unapologetically transphobic. The discussion there will often lead the moderate opinions to radicalization. You are the…

> This is a contradiction in terms. Supporting trans people means believing that transition is not some sort of "regrettable outcome". No one is saying transition is a "regrettable outcome". What people are saying is that some people may think they are trans and then change their minds later. In these cases a watchful-waiting approach is better because it may allow the person to avoid life-altering decisions like sur…

> No one is saying transition is a "regrettable outcome".

Actually a lot of people say that, cf rhetoric about "a lifetime of hormones and surgery". As someone who has had surgeries and expects to be on hormones for the rest of their life, I think what I did to my body was good, not bad.

Re: Reddit is banning any Aimee Challenor mention. UK public figure and Reddit admin

#219

Post by jennyther » Tue, Mar 23, 2021, 6:54 PM UTC

phpnode wrote: post #165

Karawebnetwork wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think many people don't care about Reddit at all and perceive these discussions as off topic and uninteresting. There are better spaces to discuss those, such as /r/SubredditDrama/. If this were a new article on the subject, it might fit. But links to Reddit threads while the drama is happening live? To me, that's gossip. Edit: Disclaimer because that's how it is on the internet, I am transgender. Yet I have never…

Perhaps, but I'm surprised given the level of influence Reddit has these days. Reddit reaches about 500 million people per month, probably more. It's not "just a silly message board" anymore. They have a comparatively tiny number of employees and those people have a very real power to control narratives. We're seeing just the tiniest glimpse of that here because the employee in question has done so in an incredibly e…

Not least, this is a site wide action by the staff without regard to subreddit mods.

And it's been done without any transparency at all. That is telling in a larger sphere, even if the details might not be so interesting.

Re: Reddit is banning any Aimee Challenor mention. UK public figure and Reddit admin

#220

Post by DanBC » Tue, Mar 23, 2021, 6:55 PM UTC

slibhb wrote: post #184

howinteresting wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The people who otherwise support trans people, but think 'affirmation-only' approaches are the wrong way to go This is a contradiction in terms. Supporting trans people means believing that transition is not some sort of "regrettable outcome". > are forced to forums/subs filled with people who are unapologetically transphobic. The discussion there will often lead the moderate opinions to radicalization. You are the…

> This is a contradiction in terms. Supporting trans people means believing that transition is not some sort of "regrettable outcome". No one is saying transition is a "regrettable outcome". What people are saying is that some people may think they are trans and then change their minds later. In these cases a watchful-waiting approach is better because it may allow the person to avoid life-altering decisions like sur…

> No one is saying transition is a "regrettable outcome".

Please for the love of christ just spend 10 minutes reading some of the gender critical arguments before trying to represent them here, because you're saying stuff that is 1) untrue and 2) very obviously untrue to anyone who's given even cursory attention to what these people are saying.

Transition currently has very low rates of regret; lower than many other forms of surgery. Hip replacement has higher rates of regret and there's not a mainstream movement trying to prevent access to that.