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Rents for the rich are going down, rents for the poor are going up. Why?

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Re: Rents for the rich are going down, rents for the poor are going up. Why?

#231

Post by marc__1 »

mc32 wrote: post #157
marc__1 wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A book that goes deeper into this conversation is The Color of Money: Black Banks and the Racial Wealth Gap Well worth the read, the story had a lot of nuances https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/34758210

That raises a question. How do other impoverished groups escape the poverty trap more quickly? Historically Chinese and other immigrants's needs were served by their own official and unofficial institutions. What can be done to keep dollars within a community to grow wealth within?

That is a great question and one that the book speaks about. Some points to consider without going too deep:

- Italians and other European communities also faced with xenophobia and racism. Italians even founded 'the bank of Italy' (which is now BofA) because there were lack of institutions who financed and provided debt to them. Some laws have deliberately pushed to integrate white europeans to 'white american' society.

- Blacks had and still have to face systemic ('redlining' districts, 'G.I Bill, 'Civil Rights', etc) and unofficial racism. As a result, Black-owned banks typically face larger cost of debt, have larger liquidity requirements (small deposits and shorter withdraw periods) and more strict mortgage rules. We all know what happened.

PS: there is still a lot of poverty traps for other immigrants and minority groups. We are still far away from what needs to be done

Re: Rents for the rich are going down, rents for the poor are going up. Why?

#232

Post by citizenpaul »

panic wrote: post #139
hsitz wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

??? In what economy do most people not have to pay just to live somewhere?

Our highways are free for everyone to use and maintained using tax money. It's not inconceivable that housing could work the same way.

Im just guessing there are several orders of magnitude greater quantity of housing rather than highways despite the apples and oranges difference.

Re: Rents for the rich are going down, rents for the poor are going up. Why?

#233

Post by silvestrov »

benhurmarcel wrote: post #229
silvestrov wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

wow, that's not much in case the apartment is damaged. Denmark allows for 3 months deposit plus 3 months rents upfront, so you have to be able to come up with 6 months rent total to get an apartment. (market here is very hot, so rental apartments have no problem getting 6 months rent) When you "quit" living in the apartment, you can use the 3 months prepaid rent, so you don't have to pay rent the last 3 months.

> 3 months deposit plus 3 months rents upfront You need to come up with 6 month worth of rent to start renting? That's massive. It basically means most would need to borrow that money. Is that supposed to be a good thing? I'm glad that illegal here, that's abusive. Personally I avoided any ad that required more than 2 month total upfront. Thankfully the local market allowed it. If I wanted to put a massive deposit I'…

A lot of people have that on hand in Denmark or can get a loan from their bank. You also don't have to pay rent the last 1 to 3 months for your previous place, so it's not as bad as it sound.

People in USA live a lot more paycheck-to-paycheck than in the rest of the world.

Re: Rents for the rich are going down, rents for the poor are going up. Why?

#234

Post by chrisseaton »

mywittyname wrote: post #162
chrisseaton wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Since many cities currently lack the recently-aging housing that would normally be filtering down market right now Huh.... in the UK house prices go up for older houses. You'd pay a premium to get an interwar house, or a 19th century house. Do people not like old houses in the US? They're usually better built, with more character, built on more land, in my experience.

Is this the case outside of London? Prices for older homes in more historic cities are high, even in the USA. But that's because commuting in Boston or DC is a fucking nightmare and most new development is occurring pretty far from the city centers. (though, not nearly to the degree of London) When you get to places like Nashville, it's still possible to build a new home 15 minutes from downtown. Plus, fly-over citie…

> Is this the case outside of London?

My impression in the UK is buying a new house is something you do when you start out if you can't afford an old house yet.

Re: Rents for the rich are going down, rents for the poor are going up. Why?

#235

Post by mc32 »

Lammy wrote: post #195
reducesuffering wrote: post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You hit a note with me about your American upbringing because I've had the same thoughts about mine but hadn't seen it hit it on the head like you have. American youth culture doesn't really value hard work and intellect. I know media like movies has a hand in this portrayal but I'm not sure it's really intentional like you allude to. I still wonder what it really is that some of us make it out into well paying caree…

> American youth culture doesn't really value hard work and intellect. They would be foolish to value those things when they can look around the world at large and see how success vs failure is pretty much some combination of luck and network/nepotism.

Kind of... 1st gen Americans retain the drive from their parents’ cultures and do better. But rivers flow downhill.

While I’m not advocating the Chinese entrance exam system, we’re the polar opposite where being lazy is cool. Look at all the youth drifting to LA dreaming of making it big. Some of that is going to YouTube/Instagram type platforms but it’s still a one in a million shot at glamorous success rather than steadfast hard work for a steady career (we do have physicians and lawyers and MBAs who resemble the steadfast attitude but it’s a small slice of society) we’re just not good at instilling this culture in our youth as well as other cultures do.

Re: Rents for the rich are going down, rents for the poor are going up. Why?

#236

Post by darksaints »

ARandumGuy wrote: post #16
lotsofpulp wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>because with the high turnover they are sure to get a new tenant pretty soon at the higher price anyway Only if coupled with insufficient construction of new housing.

Which is pretty inevitable with our system of housing development. If you're a large property owner and you want to make more money, you have two options: A) Build more housing, to create more units you can rent out. B) Don't build more housing, and use the reduced supply to raise the rent on your existing properties. Since option B has a lower risk and a higher return on investment, is it really surprising that most…

They choose A 100% of the time. No landlord has the ability to affect the market by purely limiting their own development. The market vacancy rate, which is the strongest, almost singular factor in housing prices, doesn't give a shit if you build 400 apartments or 20, it won't budge an inch. Only collective growth by the entire housing industry has the capability of budging vacancy rates.

For an example, Greystar properties, the largest multifamily housing provider in the Seattle market, controls less than 1% of the multifamily housing stock. If they wanted to decrease the vacancy rate of Seattle enough to push prices up by 10%, they would have to exit the market completely.

If you can't affect the market, because it is too competitive, your only recourse to increase profits is to build more. The force propping prices up is government and government alone. Nobody is voluntarily limiting their own development in order to push prices up.

Re: Rents for the rich are going down, rents for the poor are going up. Why?

#237

Post by lordloki »

thomastjeffery wrote: post #219
gph wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's more like the middle class is bifurcating between upperish middle class and lower-middle class. In-demand tech workers, doctors, high-level admins/managers, etc. are getting higher and higher wages while other professions that used to be middle class as starting to stagnate and fall behind such as low-level office workers, journalists, teachers, mid-to-low level managers, etc. I wouldn't consider either group to…

> I think the issue is that the article is inflammatory click-bait because it makes it seems like rich people are getting a break while poor people are getting shafted. Why? Do you seriously think that is untrue? Go talk to some poor people. Hell, just talk to someone who is 18-29: there is a 52% chance they are stuck living with their parents[1]. We're definitely getting shafted over here. [1] https://www.pewresearc…

It's just supply and demand. The rich are leaving the cities for suburbs, so more of the higher end apartments are available. Which will lower those rents because there is low demand and high supply.

Meanwhile, there is a moratorium on evictions so cheaper apartments are not becoming available at a natural rate. So you have high demand and low supply, which will drive prices up.

Of course there are many other factors in play too. Such as zoning issues preventing new building, NIMBY preventing affordable housing being built, environmental restrictions preventing building in certain areas, etc. Plus the fact that developers will make much more money building luxury apartments than they will make building low income housing. Sometimes governments will offer tax rebates to builder of low income housing, but this then upsets a lot of the same people who want the low income housing to be built so it goes on and on.

Re: Rents for the rich are going down, rents for the poor are going up. Why?

#238

Post by wpietri »

anonuser123456 wrote: post #163
majormajor wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Buying a house has really high transaction costs. ~6% commission, plus more in fees and taxes. And then once you have the house, you've taken on all the maintenance and price risk. That can make sense if you're staying a long time and want the benefits of ownership. But plenty of people with high-flying jobs know that they may move soon enough that the math doesn't work out. Interestingly, most of the transaction c…

> Interestingly, most of the transaction costs hit you when you sell, not when you buy When you buy, the seller is paying the transaction fees. Where do you think that money comes from? They get it from _you_ the buyer.

Exactly. I'm sure the hidden fees have some effect on people. But anybody who is thinking about buying now and possibly moving in a few years should be thinking about the round-trip costs.

Re: Rents for the rich are going down, rents for the poor are going up. Why?

#240

Post by tehjoker »

djbebs wrote: post #215
tehjoker wrote: post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unlike food, land simply exists. That's why rents are so abhorrent. You are taxed by nobility simply because its theirs, not because they render any service. For food, you are paying because someone had to perform labor for you. Land can be parceled out using any system people can devise. Rent is completely artificial. Strangely, the people that do nothing for you charge FAR more than the people who hunt for you. An…

If you'd like you're welcome to lobby for the homestead act again. That would solve your lack of land without having to violate other peoples rights

The homestead act was part of westward expansion. The free "unclaimed" land (it was Native American land) provided a relief valve for the American system. When the poor became too uppity, the government would provide them with an escape valve of free land and adventure. When we finally reached California, that escape valve disappeared.

What you claim are rights, I dispute. The ability to control other people's living situation and extract rents is not a natural right. If anything, it's an abomination.

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