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Rents for the rich are going down, rents for the poor are going up. Why?

washingtonpost.com

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Re: Rents for the rich are going down, rents for the poor are going up. Why?

#131

Post by ek750 »

roguecoder wrote: post #108
gnicholas wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Chicago does have a large supply of housing and land that can be converted into housing. This helps keep the cost of housing closer to the cost required to construct units. In CA, the cost of a home has almost nothing to do with the input costs other than land. There are areas that could be built up (tons of land just west of 280), but which is protected by environmental laws or restrictions. Full development of this…

San Francisco also has 26 skyscrapers to Chicago's 130. 80% of the Bay Area is zoned exclusive for single family, to Chicago's 41.1%. It's not landscape and it's not rocket science: it's zoning. San Francisco could build up, letting people live closer to their work & be much better for the environment than encouraging sprawl, but chooses not to. Y'all decided to make housing expensive, so it is.

doesn't it largely stem from Prop 13 which incentivizes all current land-owners to block any possibility of increasing density, at the expense of the rest of society?

It's interesting to me that such a universally easy sell as, "no new taxes" can result in such a distorted and, IMO, grotesque unintended consequence.

Re: Rents for the rich are going down, rents for the poor are going up. Why?

#132

Post by perl4ever »

Before reading the article, I would say because obviously the rich can, and are, fleeing population centers because of covid, while the poor mostly can't and aren't?

"With covid-19 largely shutting down the perks of city life, many tenants who had the means to leave did so. Higher-wage workers who were juggling remote work and virtual school sought out more space, often purchasing a house in the ’burbs."

Exactly.

Re: Rents for the rich are going down, rents for the poor are going up. Why?

#133

Post by chrisseaton »

roguecoder wrote: post #17

While the article is interesting, there is one dynamic it missed: tech debt. Starting around 1975, housing supply stopped keeping up with the growth of housing demand. It picked back up fifteen years later, around 1990: https://www.brookings.edu/research/the-goldilocks-problem-of... (But that is on a national level: in the West, in comparison, housing growth hasn't been sufficient to house the new households formed a…

> Since many cities currently lack the recently-aging housing that would normally be filtering down market right now

Huh.... in the UK house prices go up for older houses. You'd pay a premium to get an interwar house, or a 19th century house. Do people not like old houses in the US? They're usually better built, with more character, built on more land, in my experience.

Re: Rents for the rich are going down, rents for the poor are going up. Why?

#134

Post by jessaustin »

tehjoker wrote: post #69
outside1234 wrote: post #5

It is a huge risk right now to take on someone that is poor as a renter because of the moratorium. It is completely unsurprising to me that landlords have priced this risk factor in.

It's crazy that we live in an economy where you have to pay just to live somewhere, but when the eviction moratorium ends, there's going to be a huge financial reckoning as there's no way anyone is paying all that back rent. Biden is going to have to either bail out tenants or landlords and banks. I'll be taking bets on which one he does.

...either bail out tenants or landlords and banks.

Not quite. This crisis will be handled just like the last one. No tenants, homeowners, or landlords will be bailed out. That they go bankrupt and have their property repossessed is the whole point of the exercise. Big lenders will get the bailout on top of the collateral.

Re: Rents for the rich are going down, rents for the poor are going up. Why?

#135

Post by toomuchtodo »

chrisseaton wrote: post #133
roguecoder wrote: post #17

While the article is interesting, there is one dynamic it missed: tech debt. Starting around 1975, housing supply stopped keeping up with the growth of housing demand. It picked back up fifteen years later, around 1990: https://www.brookings.edu/research/the-goldilocks-problem-of... (But that is on a national level: in the West, in comparison, housing growth hasn't been sufficient to house the new households formed a…

> Since many cities currently lack the recently-aging housing that would normally be filtering down market right now Huh.... in the UK house prices go up for older houses. You'd pay a premium to get an interwar house, or a 19th century house. Do people not like old houses in the US? They're usually better built, with more character, built on more land, in my experience.

Old houses in the US come with a lot of costs. They're usually poorly insulated, need to be brought up to code when renovations are performed, can have electrical and plumbing systems that need to be replaced in their entirety, and sometimes are just hard to insure in general (insurers can cancel your homeowners policy on any home in Florida over 40 years old at their discretion when your policy comes up for renewal). House has lead and asbestos? Remediation can be costly depending on your jurisdiction's requirements. This is less of a concern in highly desirable areas, as well to do buyers will buy for the land alone, demolish the property, and build new.

Disclosure: I renovate homes as a hobby, and occasionally demo those beyond repair. Most recent project was an older duplex in Naperville, IL torn down to replace with a modern three flat.

Re: Rents for the rich are going down, rents for the poor are going up. Why?

#137

Post by jessaustin »

wideareanetwork wrote: post #9

Because by definition rich means “can buy house”, and poor means “no choice but to rent”. What sort of rich person rents a house, except whilst between selling old and new? It’s a strange question to ask .... who doesn’t see this as self evident?

This reminds me of something a great-uncle once said: "If I was that rich I'd eat steak for every meal!"

Re: Rents for the rich are going down, rents for the poor are going up. Why?

#138

Post by fowkswe »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #135
chrisseaton wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Since many cities currently lack the recently-aging housing that would normally be filtering down market right now Huh.... in the UK house prices go up for older houses. You'd pay a premium to get an interwar house, or a 19th century house. Do people not like old houses in the US? They're usually better built, with more character, built on more land, in my experience.

Old houses in the US come with a lot of costs. They're usually poorly insulated, need to be brought up to code when renovations are performed, can have electrical and plumbing systems that need to be replaced in their entirety, and sometimes are just hard to insure in general (insurers can cancel your homeowners policy on any home in Florida over 40 years old at their discretion when your policy comes up for renewal)…

'Old' houses in the US are different than old houses in the UK. Old in the US usually means 1930s/40s/50s and the majority of that housing stock was poorly constructed leading to the problems that @toomuchtodo alluded to. In the few places where we truly have old houses (19th century) - the North East and central parts of some cities - they do, usually, command a premium.

Re: Rents for the rich are going down, rents for the poor are going up. Why?

#139

Post by panic »

hsitz wrote: post #79
tehjoker wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's crazy that we live in an economy where you have to pay just to live somewhere, but when the eviction moratorium ends, there's going to be a huge financial reckoning as there's no way anyone is paying all that back rent. Biden is going to have to either bail out tenants or landlords and banks. I'll be taking bets on which one he does.

??? In what economy do most people not have to pay just to live somewhere?

Our highways are free for everyone to use and maintained using tax money. It's not inconceivable that housing could work the same way.

Re: Rents for the rich are going down, rents for the poor are going up. Why?

#140

Post by billfruit »

roguecoder wrote: post #17

While the article is interesting, there is one dynamic it missed: tech debt. Starting around 1975, housing supply stopped keeping up with the growth of housing demand. It picked back up fifteen years later, around 1990: https://www.brookings.edu/research/the-goldilocks-problem-of... (But that is on a national level: in the West, in comparison, housing growth hasn't been sufficient to house the new households formed a…

You mean the "West coast" when you say West?
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