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MacBook Owners' Butterfly Keyboard Lawsuit Gets Class Action Certification

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Re: MacBook Owners' Butterfly Keyboard Lawsuit Gets Class Action Certification

#121

Post by brailsafe »

SilverRed wrote: post #26
Goosee wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I use to have the same thought process as you: instantly sold on devices with native hdmi, usb a & usb c. By that metric xps beats macbook. Recently I tried to convert to a windows laptop from my 16 inch mbp. Upon switching I was constantly annoyed by the fan noise & using my pinkie to press the 'control' key opposed to macbook thumb on 'command' key. The point is, I realized native port selection was not a metric to…

I found the fan noise to be horrific on the 13in i5 macbook I was using. The thing was overheating constantly and since I use linux and windows at home, having the cmd key different only while working was a huge annoyance for me. On my dell xps 15 I almost never hear the fans at all and there is usually only a quick burst of fan noise when running a webpack compile or something compared to non stop 80% fans on the mb…

Aren't all good hubs quite costly though? I just use a shitty little USB-C adapter + usb cable, and my monitor acts as the hub. I agree about the fan noise.

Re: MacBook Owners' Butterfly Keyboard Lawsuit Gets Class Action Certification

#122

Post by skocznymroczny »

turtlebits wrote: post #94

Not sure if just me, but the Butterfly keyboard is the best keyboard I've ever used on a notebook. The thinness didn't matter to me, typing feel felt so much more stable and solid. I don't believe it was created due to a pursuit of thinness. That said, I didn't have failures other than a couple of minor occurrences, twice I had to clean out my 2016 (with blown air), and never had any issues on my 2018.

Me too. I love butterfly keyboard. I like how crunchy it feels like typing. I wish they made external keyboards with butterfly mechanism because I'd love to have one for my PC.

Re: MacBook Owners' Butterfly Keyboard Lawsuit Gets Class Action Certification

#123

Post by skocznymroczny »

birdyrooster wrote: post #6
rbanffy wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I actually like the very tactile nature. I think it's a shame to have to return to the previous model, where key travel is longer, but the tactility is meh.

I agree, I don't like key travel. I guess I am in the minority of people, because my RSI symptoms are actually lessened by lowering my key travel and trigger force. How I differ though is that I really would prefer a more quiet key than the Butterfly style. It's hard to type quietly on the toilet or in a meeting.

How do you type on the keyboard? I think butterfly keyboard (and scissor switch keyboards too) appeals more to people who gently tap the keys. High-rise keyboards appeal more to people who whack the keys from a distance.

Re: MacBook Owners' Butterfly Keyboard Lawsuit Gets Class Action Certification

#124

Post by mszcz »

SilverRed wrote: post #26
Goosee wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I use to have the same thought process as you: instantly sold on devices with native hdmi, usb a & usb c. By that metric xps beats macbook. Recently I tried to convert to a windows laptop from my 16 inch mbp. Upon switching I was constantly annoyed by the fan noise & using my pinkie to press the 'control' key opposed to macbook thumb on 'command' key. The point is, I realized native port selection was not a metric to…

I found the fan noise to be horrific on the 13in i5 macbook I was using. The thing was overheating constantly and since I use linux and windows at home, having the cmd key different only while working was a huge annoyance for me. On my dell xps 15 I almost never hear the fans at all and there is usually only a quick burst of fan noise when running a webpack compile or something compared to non stop 80% fans on the mb…

I recently upgraded/switched my dev machine from a desktop (Intel NUC Hades Canyon) to a Lenovo Legion 5-15 ARH "gaming" laptop with 32GB, 2xM.2 and Ryzen 4800H (more mobile, more pandemic friendly).

It's a big laptop by XPS13 standards sure, but one that's appropriately cooled. I hadn't been aware, up to that point, how much the fans bothered me. This thing is quick but at the same time real quiet. After some time I turned the NUC on for some reason, the funs launched into overdrive and I suddenly got annoyed.

Re: MacBook Owners' Butterfly Keyboard Lawsuit Gets Class Action Certification

#126

Post by skocznymroczny »

dylan604 wrote: post #91
ornxka wrote: post #63

Am I the only one who thinks that no travel + tactile feedback actually sound like two highly desirable properties for a keyboard? Whenever I use someone else's butterfly keyboard I'm impressed and a bit jealous, but as I've never used one for long, I can't say whether it's really an improvement.

No travel sounds like you just want a giant touch bar with the layout of the keyboard.

Except touch bars have no tactile feedback and can't feel the separate keys.

I like about very low travel time keyboards is that the keys have only two states - pressed or not pressed. With mechanical and other high rise keyboards you have these awkward transitions, where the key activates around halfway through the travel time. So you either stop before the activation point and miss the keystroke, or you overpress the key, bottom out and slow your typing rate dramatically.

Re: MacBook Owners' Butterfly Keyboard Lawsuit Gets Class Action Certification

#127

Post by [deleted] »

airstrike wrote: post #66
quesera wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> even distros that Mimic the look of OSX, and remap the keys to your hearts content Sadly, they mimic the macOS UI very poorly, and it remains not-possible in Linux to universally remap keyboard shortcuts to match macOS built-in sanity.

> to match macOS built-in sanity. Yeah, I really wish I could map Alt+Down to open files in Nautilus so that I can then use the Enter key to rename them like any sane person

[deleted]

Re: MacBook Owners' Butterfly Keyboard Lawsuit Gets Class Action Certification

#128

Post by SpelingBeeChamp »

TheRealSteel wrote: post #55
cletus wrote: post #18

I actually blame Johnny Ive for this clusterf*ck. Ive famously pursued a crusade for thinness. It's said that design is the art of compromise. Well, Ive took a no compromises approach to thinness and it showed. Look no further than the 12" Macbook. One port (also needed for power), lower power CPU and (I believe?) the start of the dreaded butterfly keyboard. IIRC the butterfly keyboard's raison d'etre was to shave ha…

I don't believe the Air got rid of the Touch Bar -- it never had it. It was only on the Pro. What's so "Pro" about replacing the useful function keys (including the escape key) with a bar that does nothing but pick emojis is beyond me. I strongly dislike the Touch Bar. I'm typing this on a 2019 MacBook Pro whose Touch Bar died yesterday, leaving me with no escape key, no volume buttons, no keyboard brightness buttons…

I produce video, and I have to tell you... the touch bar? I love the thing. I suspect you may not be part of its target audience.

Re: MacBook Owners' Butterfly Keyboard Lawsuit Gets Class Action Certification

#129

Post by darkwater »

SilverRed wrote: post #20
cletus wrote: post #18

I actually blame Johnny Ive for this clusterf*ck. Ive famously pursued a crusade for thinness. It's said that design is the art of compromise. Well, Ive took a no compromises approach to thinness and it showed. Look no further than the 12" Macbook. One port (also needed for power), lower power CPU and (I believe?) the start of the dreaded butterfly keyboard. IIRC the butterfly keyboard's raison d'etre was to shave ha…

I recently had the choice between a macbook pro and a dell xps. Saw the dell xps had HDMI, USB-C _and_ USB-A and was sold. Its nice to be able to bring my laptop in to a meeting room and just be able to plug in the hdmi cable without needing an adapter. Its also really nice to be able to use all my usb c accessories but without having to go usb C only. And its not noticeably thicker than the macbook either. I can und…

> I recently had the choice between a macbook pro and a dell xps

Which XPS? My XPS 13 9300 has just 2 USB-C ports and a micro-SD slot (I don't mind carrying a small USB-C to everything adapter TBH, you can even have ethernet and VGA with that)

Re: MacBook Owners' Butterfly Keyboard Lawsuit Gets Class Action Certification

#130

Post by bborud »

cletus wrote: post #18

I actually blame Johnny Ive for this clusterf*ck. Ive famously pursued a crusade for thinness. It's said that design is the art of compromise. Well, Ive took a no compromises approach to thinness and it showed. Look no further than the 12" Macbook. One port (also needed for power), lower power CPU and (I believe?) the start of the dreaded butterfly keyboard. IIRC the butterfly keyboard's raison d'etre was to shave ha…

You can probably use the Ive/Jobs combination to describe evolution. Ive was the mutation source, Jobs was the selection filter. What makes evolution work is selection. Without selection you get crap. Mutation is just the noise you need to have something to apply (recombination and) selection to.

It is hard to say how much post-Jobs was really Ive. But it was clear that Apple got really lost. And it does suggest that Ive was rather mediocre all along. After all, he sinned against one of the most basic principles when you design something: it has to deserve to exist.

In the latter half of the 2010s it got really bad and dare I say: Apple didn't do very well in designing laptops. They really lost touch with reality.

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