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I’ve made a Cursed USB-C 2.0 device

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Re: I’ve made a Cursed USB-C 2.0 device

#131

Post by danielEM »

hctaw wrote: post #55
danielEM wrote: post #44

USB, HDMI, Cable ethernet, DisplayPort, PCIe, ... they all use differential signals to transmit data, just different protocols. We could really and truly have just one type of plug to connect everything to everything a long time ago and without proprietary licenses. As much as I like what USB-C offers as much I hate it and other "stupid" standards that duplicate same function just with differnt plugs - transfering da…

Different physical connectors prevents you from frying a device that gets plugged into the wrong plug. We should have different connectors for different data rates and power levels. Don't pass the buck to designers, they'll screw up.

Usb already offers couple of different data rates and power levels, so wonder why they use just one usb-c connector for all of it? ;)

Ok, sarcasm aside. Technicaly you dont need separate plugs for different connection levels and power transmission up to certain powers. Initial data exchange at some base speed and minimum power requirements can provide necesarry information for devices to establish or refuse connection

Re: I’ve made a Cursed USB-C 2.0 device

#132

Post by danielEM »

williamscales wrote: post #110
danielEM wrote: post #44

USB, HDMI, Cable ethernet, DisplayPort, PCIe, ... they all use differential signals to transmit data, just different protocols. We could really and truly have just one type of plug to connect everything to everything a long time ago and without proprietary licenses. As much as I like what USB-C offers as much I hate it and other "stupid" standards that duplicate same function just with differnt plugs - transfering da…

I've asked a lot of hardware engineers why ethernet is not simply used for everything. I've never gotten a real answer, one that involves technical reasons. It could be done, but it isn't. I guess people like having different kinds of cables?

World would be prettier with just ethernet (aldo it is not perfect)

Re: I’ve made a Cursed USB-C 2.0 device

#134

Post by hctaw »

danielEM wrote: post #131
hctaw wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Different physical connectors prevents you from frying a device that gets plugged into the wrong plug. We should have different connectors for different data rates and power levels. Don't pass the buck to designers, they'll screw up.

Usb already offers couple of different data rates and power levels, so wonder why they use just one usb-c connector for all of it? ;) Ok, sarcasm aside. Technicaly you dont need separate plugs for different connection levels and power transmission up to certain powers. Initial data exchange at some base speed and minimum power requirements can provide necesarry information for devices to establish or refuse connectio…

The variety of what is "supported" is also why it's taken years for USB-C to see any modicum of use outside mobile phone chargers that required the higher power and data rates. It's still not commonplace.

And it's still only useful for low power devices.

Re: I’ve made a Cursed USB-C 2.0 device

#135

Post by sneak »

mauvehaus wrote: post #107
sneak wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You do see NEMA 5-15R receptacles on 20A circuits in residential applications This is, of course, what I was talking about. I do appreciate the nuances of the 15/20 T-socket and the 6-20/5-20 symmetry; NEMA is super cool (aside from the fact that bladed plugs that aren't twist-lock are sort of lame/less safe in general, at least compared to the UK standard bladed plug). It's a fun rabbit hole to venture down: my oc…

That's never bothered me, but I guess I see your point. I always figured that the point of having a 20A circuit with 15A receptacles was so that you can plug in and run two 10A devices without popping the breaker. Stupid question: are there any common household appliances that draw 20A? I've only ever seen the T receptacles in non-household uses.

Window air conditioners, as a sibling dead comment pointed out. You'll commonly see such an outlet below a windowsill in some apartment buildings for this reason.

Re: I’ve made a Cursed USB-C 2.0 device

#136

Post by techdragon »

m463 wrote: post #84
weinzierl wrote: post #16

Now I want a USB-C thumb drive that has different data on different sides. Like the old 5 1/4" diskette drives where you flipped the disk for double capacity. Using it for retro-gaming would be fun. When the game says "Flip the Disk" you flip the USB drive.

what about an input side and an output side? One is Read Only Memory, the other is Write Only Memory (the holy grail)

Well this is a damn nice project idea...

Re: I’ve made a Cursed USB-C 2.0 device

#137

Post by [deleted] »

weinzierl wrote: post #16

Now I want a USB-C thumb drive that has different data on different sides. Like the old 5 1/4" diskette drives where you flipped the disk for double capacity. Using it for retro-gaming would be fun. When the game says "Flip the Disk" you flip the USB drive.

[deleted]

Re: I’ve made a Cursed USB-C 2.0 device

#138

Post by buran77 »

duskwuff wrote: post #121
buran77 wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't that a direct outcome of the reversibility aspect? [0] Technically it has 2 of everything. [0] https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/07/US...

Not everything. The USBFS pair (D+/D-, at the center of the connector) is mirrored; the two D+ lines are connected together. This is not true of the four USBSS pairs -- TX1+/- and TX2+/- are separate, and can both be used at the same time for different purposes. The CC1/2 lines (which aren't mirrored either) are used as part of the process to negotiate how these pairs are used.

I meant it the other way around. The non-reversible type A does not have this extra pair regardless of standard. But the type C is reversible and short of having pins automatically reconfigure based on the detected position, the only straightforward way to achieve this reversibility is to double the number of pins. So one side of the type C connector perfectly mirrors the other (but flipped for reversibility) mechanically and electrically.

I'm fairly certain they are using double the number of USBSS because they're available due to the mirroring. It was the easiest way. Unlike the control channel or side band, you can actually benefit from using all the pairs for data transmission since they're already there.

Re: I’ve made a Cursed USB-C 2.0 device

#139

Post by Kliment »

floatboth wrote: post #58
danielEM wrote: post #44

USB, HDMI, Cable ethernet, DisplayPort, PCIe, ... they all use differential signals to transmit data, just different protocols. We could really and truly have just one type of plug to connect everything to everything a long time ago and without proprietary licenses. As much as I like what USB-C offers as much I hate it and other "stupid" standards that duplicate same function just with differnt plugs - transfering da…

But it offers exactly things like allocating some lanes to DisplayPort. The unfortunate thing is that Thunderbolt was created, and instead of a simple way to make PCIe external, we have this Intel-created mess that tunnels PCIe over some cursed "MPLS-like network" or whatever it is. And it was completely Intel-proprietary until recently. At least now the spec is open.

The spec is still not open, as far as I can tell. The TB4 mode of USB4 appears to still be proprietary.

Re: I’ve made a Cursed USB-C 2.0 device

#140

Post by franga2000 »

protomyth wrote: post #63
weinzierl wrote: post #16

Now I want a USB-C thumb drive that has different data on different sides. Like the old 5 1/4" diskette drives where you flipped the disk for double capacity. Using it for retro-gaming would be fun. When the game says "Flip the Disk" you flip the USB drive.

The 007 version would have data on one side and blank the drive if plugged in the wrong way or, well, blow up to provide a distraction.

You need to do a certain sequence of flips in order to unlock the secret partition. Without that, it presents a honeypot partition. Any attempt to request a file in the "SECRET DOCUMENTS" folder discharges 220V of capacitors across the data pins.
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