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I’ve made a Cursed USB-C 2.0 device

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Re: I’ve made a Cursed USB-C 2.0 device

#41

Post by sneak »

mauvehaus wrote: post #36
sneak wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is true of electrical power outlets (15A/20A), HDMI, schrader valves, RJ45 (this one especially!), and many other things in life, and I don't think it's very fair to pick on USB-C in this manner when it does so many other things much better than previous alternatives.

There are actually different connectors for 15 and 20 amp devices in the US under NEMA. You do see NEMA 5-15R receptacles on 20A circuits in residential applications, but that's probably because most appliances don't require 20 amps. A 5-15 connector has two vertical prongs, a 5-20 has a horizontal and a vertical, with the special case of receptacles with a T slot that fits both 5-15 and 5-20 plugs. It goes a bit dee…

> You do see NEMA 5-15R receptacles on 20A circuits in residential applications

This is, of course, what I was talking about. I do appreciate the nuances of the 15/20 T-socket and the 6-20/5-20 symmetry; NEMA is super cool (aside from the fact that bladed plugs that aren't twist-lock are sort of lame/less safe in general, at least compared to the UK standard bladed plug). It's a fun rabbit hole to venture down: my occasion was having to adapt straight-blade wall box receptacles that the electrician installed to the twist-lock of the PDUs we had bought.

There's also a fun and confusing mess of competing DC connector standards. I haven't decided what 12/48VDC connectors I'm going to put into my new house build yet (beyond the obviously mandatory 5V USB).

Re: I’ve made a Cursed USB-C 2.0 device

#44

Post by danielEM »

USB, HDMI, Cable ethernet, DisplayPort, PCIe, ... they all use differential signals to transmit data, just different protocols. We could really and truly have just one type of plug to connect everything to everything a long time ago and without proprietary licenses. As much as I like what USB-C offers as much I hate it and other "stupid" standards that duplicate same function just with differnt plugs - transfering data.

Re: I’ve made a Cursed USB-C 2.0 device

#45

Post by marcosdumay »

Hnaomyiph wrote: post #4

I feel like USB-C is cursed enough on its own. The sheer number of times I’ve had to explain to family members why just because the two USB-C ports on a laptop look the same, doesn’t mean they work the same.

Between USB2, USB2-Power, and USB3, I haven't got a laptop that I know what USB port does what in a long time... And I still didn't get any with USB-C.

Re: I’ve made a Cursed USB-C 2.0 device

#46

Post by cesarb »

jdsully wrote: post #21
sneak wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is true of electrical power outlets (15A/20A), HDMI, schrader valves, RJ45 (this one especially!), and many other things in life, and I don't think it's very fair to pick on USB-C in this manner when it does so many other things much better than previous alternatives.

20A plugs look different, they have a prong rotated 90 degrees.

Where I live (which uses the NBR 14136 standard), the 20A plugs and sockets look identical to the 10A plugs and sockets, the pins and corresponding holes are only slightly larger (so that a 10A plug fits on a 20A socket, but not the reverse).

Re: I’ve made a Cursed USB-C 2.0 device

#47

Post by gumby »

Theodores wrote: post #39
weinzierl wrote: post #16

Now I want a USB-C thumb drive that has different data on different sides. Like the old 5 1/4" diskette drives where you flipped the disk for double capacity. Using it for retro-gaming would be fun. When the game says "Flip the Disk" you flip the USB drive.

Given that this is the only practical application you have to wonder why we ever had the one way plugs in the first place.

It was to reduce BOM cost. That is such a driver that there were (/are still?) cables without any data lines at all and only power, just to save money.

I used them for plugging into public power supplies, but they were never sold to consumers labeled for that purpose.

Re: I’ve made a Cursed USB-C 2.0 device

#48

Post by avian »

Hnaomyiph wrote: post #4

I feel like USB-C is cursed enough on its own. The sheer number of times I’ve had to explain to family members why just because the two USB-C ports on a laptop look the same, doesn’t mean they work the same.

I find it funny how people used to complain about the sheer number of times they had to explain to family members exactly the opposite: "No need to ask. If you can plug it in, then it will work. Computers are fool-proof like that. No, it's not like the jacks on the hi-fi"

As in, someone got a new mouse and didn't know where to plug it into their computer, when in fact there was only one DB-9 connector on the computer where it will physically fit and it would be the correct one.

Re: I’ve made a Cursed USB-C 2.0 device

#49

Post by gumby »

airhead969 wrote: post #26
Hnaomyiph wrote: post #4

I feel like USB-C is cursed enough on its own. The sheer number of times I’ve had to explain to family members why just because the two USB-C ports on a laptop look the same, doesn’t mean they work the same.

And why didn't it use a water-/corrosion-proof, breakaway magnetic connector?

Cost. At least the part that wears out first is on the cable, not the device. That was one of the botches of mini-UCB A

Re: I’ve made a Cursed USB-C 2.0 device

#50

Post by chaorace »

Theodores wrote: post #39
weinzierl wrote: post #16

Now I want a USB-C thumb drive that has different data on different sides. Like the old 5 1/4" diskette drives where you flipped the disk for double capacity. Using it for retro-gaming would be fun. When the game says "Flip the Disk" you flip the USB drive.

Given that this is the only practical application you have to wonder why we ever had the one way plugs in the first place.

Two major reasons, as far as I understand things.

Firstly, reversible plugs are harder to make structurally resilient, they only become feasible cost-wise as stronger materials become cheaper and manufacturing grows more efficient.

Secondly, reversible plugs are a lot more complex. Compare the 4(ish) pins of USB-A to the 24 pins on USB-C. Not all of them are strictly necessary for parity with USB-A, but you could cut that number in half quite easily if the plug were not reversible! Sure, this complexity impacts manufacturing, but, less obviously, it also pushes that increased complexity onto the USB controller hardware/firmware.

Neither of these issues were necessarily dealbreakers, but... for a long time they certainly did conspire to make reversible plugs into a pipedream. I have to imagine that were always bigger problems to solve and fewer resources to work with! We're just now seeing reversible plugs really take off because we've finally crossed that magic threshold where it makes sense to try surmounting those barriers.

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