Rents for the rich are going down, rents for the poor are going up. Why? • Hacker News Board

Re: Rents for the rich are going down, rents for the poor are going up. Why?

#181

Post by Lammy » Tue, Mar 23, 2021, 4:37 AM UTC

mc32 wrote: post #157

marc__1 wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A book that goes deeper into this conversation is The Color of Money: Black Banks and the Racial Wealth Gap Well worth the read, the story had a lot of nuances https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/34758210

That raises a question. How do other impoverished groups escape the poverty trap more quickly? Historically Chinese and other immigrants's needs were served by their own official and unofficial institutions. What can be done to keep dollars within a community to grow wealth within?

I feel like it goes way beyond "impoverished" when the oppression and exploitation of free labor from a particular group is woven into hundreds of years of cultural DNA of the country, right from the very beginning written into the founding documents of South Carolina in the 1660s: https://avalon.law.yale.edu/17th_century/nc05.asp (section 110)

There are so many intersecting social issues too, like America's experiment with alcohol prohibition in the 1920s and anti-prostitution laws that to this day are endangering women, enabling trafficking, and being used as justification for ever-increasing surveillance. You can guess which types of "open minded" businesses back in the day tended to host jazz music and be more welcoming to blacks. Most people in San Francisco, for example, know of the Fillmore District but probably not of Terrific Street: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terrific_Street#Demise

Or the whole "Red Scare" McCarthyism thing, Hollywood codes, and anti-labor-union activities in the 20th century: https://isreview.org/issue/1/communist-party-and-black-liber...

I don't think this can be truly addressed without somehow dethroning and replacing the ruling egregore of America, but it is us and we are it.

Re: Rents for the rich are going down, rents for the poor are going up. Why?

#182

Post by usefulcat » Tue, Mar 23, 2021, 4:39 AM UTC

chrisseaton wrote: post #133

roguecoder wrote: post #17

While the article is interesting, there is one dynamic it missed: tech debt. Starting around 1975, housing supply stopped keeping up with the growth of housing demand. It picked back up fifteen years later, around 1990: https://www.brookings.edu/research/the-goldilocks-problem-of... (But that is on a national level: in the West, in comparison, housing growth hasn't been sufficient to house the new households formed a…

> Since many cities currently lack the recently-aging housing that would normally be filtering down market right now Huh.... in the UK house prices go up for older houses. You'd pay a premium to get an interwar house, or a 19th century house. Do people not like old houses in the US? They're usually better built, with more character, built on more land, in my experience.

If the house even still exists and is in a desirable part of town in a desirable city, then yes it will certainly commend a premium. Though often as much for its location as for any other reason.

But consider also that in 1900, the population of the US was less than a quarter of what it is now, and also that the number of people per household is much less. Also, a lot (probably most) houses that existed in 1900 don't even exist any more. So in reality there are relatively few houses that old that are still available today.

Re: Rents for the rich are going down, rents for the poor are going up. Why?

#183

Post by sershe » Tue, Mar 23, 2021, 4:47 AM UTC

panic wrote: post #139

hsitz wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

??? In what economy do most people not have to pay just to live somewhere?

Our highways are free for everyone to use and maintained using tax money. It's not inconceivable that housing could work the same way.

I grew up in an economy where it was. When I was born, we were living in a 4-people, 3-generational, ~500sqft 1.5 room flat (the large kitchen was subdivided to make a tiny bedroom); later, the govt decided that we deserve better and I ended up growing up in a 4-people, 2-generational, ~650sqft 2-room flat. I wonder what my parents, two engineers, would have been able to afford in the USA?

I think I had a very happy childhood but comparing these things kinda allows you to reflect. Interestingly, the low standards stick; when we bought a small 1100sqft house with my wife (in the USA), some of my friends back in Russia were like "oh, a big house, are you planning for kids?" ;)

Re: Rents for the rich are going down, rents for the poor are going up. Why?

#184

Post by mc32 » Tue, Mar 23, 2021, 4:48 AM UTC

Lammy wrote: post #181

mc32 wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That raises a question. How do other impoverished groups escape the poverty trap more quickly? Historically Chinese and other immigrants's needs were served by their own official and unofficial institutions. What can be done to keep dollars within a community to grow wealth within?

I feel like it goes way beyond "impoverished" when the oppression and exploitation of free labor from a particular group is woven into hundreds of years of cultural DNA of the country, right from the very beginning written into the founding documents of South Carolina in the 1660s: https://avalon.law.yale.edu/17th_century/nc05.asp (section 110) There are so many intersecting social issues too, like America's experime…

I can't speak to cultural DNA. But I guess we could test it by looking at kids who at a young age moved to a different country and whether that cultural DNA sticks.

As I mentioned elsewhere, I think the media and entertainment have a hand in this and the establishment does not care --they want cheap labor. So on the one hand it's Fast Times at Ridgemont High, on the other we big tech and others want American kids to be dedicated to study like Chinese or Indian kids.

Movies and Media pretty much indoctrinate kids to be carefree and do what you want without consequences. (If media had no influence on people, people would not call for diversity in role models, etc)

Re: Rents for the rich are going down, rents for the poor are going up. Why?

#185

Post by fwip » Tue, Mar 23, 2021, 5:00 AM UTC

ArchOversight wrote: post #171

trillic wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If 4 22 year olds making 50k each share a $3,000 4bd 2ba rental "for the rich" I'd say they're middle class and can afford it.

4bd 2ba for $3k ain't happening in SF ;-)

Most places aren't SF

Re: Rents for the rich are going down, rents for the poor are going up. Why?

#186

Post by [deleted] » Tue, Mar 23, 2021, 5:00 AM UTC

trillic wrote: post #67

warent wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think these days high priced apartments are only affordable by the wealthy, unless people are grouping together with multiple roommates, at which point it means they can't actually afford the apartment, so is it really middle class anymore?

If 4 22 year olds making 50k each share a $3,000 4bd 2ba rental "for the rich" I'd say they're middle class and can afford it.

[deleted]

Re: Rents for the rich are going down, rents for the poor are going up. Why?

#187

Post by nimos » Tue, Mar 23, 2021, 5:04 AM UTC

gnicholas wrote: post #72

outside1234 wrote: post #5

It is a huge risk right now to take on someone that is poor as a renter because of the moratorium. It is completely unsurprising to me that landlords have priced this risk factor in.

Interestingly, if landlords were allowed to use larger security deposits, some would choose to do this instead of raising the monthly rent. My friend is looking to rent out an ADU, and the first idea was to have a sizable security deposit in order to filter applicants who fully intended on paying rent from those who would be more likely to use the eviction moratorium. But apparently California tightened the rules aro…

Hmmm - I just paid 2 months deposit in 2021. Googling seems to say that is allowable.

"Effective January 1, 2020, landlords may not request a security deposit of more than one month’s rent for an unfurnished unit, and two month’s rent for a furnished unit, if the unit is rented to a service member."

The one month limit seems specific to service members.

Re: Rents for the rich are going down, rents for the poor are going up. Why?

#188

Post by reducesuffering » Tue, Mar 23, 2021, 5:05 AM UTC

GlennS wrote: post #151

chrisseaton wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Since many cities currently lack the recently-aging housing that would normally be filtering down market right now Huh.... in the UK house prices go up for older houses. You'd pay a premium to get an interwar house, or a 19th century house. Do people not like old houses in the US? They're usually better built, with more character, built on more land, in my experience.

I've heard that usually the price of the land goes up faster than the price of the building goes down. But I guess if the building is unique or listed or has high enough build quality that it won't be knocked down in the foreseeable future, then maybe the building's price goes up to.

You've heard correct because the building is depreciating/deteriorating about as fast as it's nominal $ value is inflating, so it's about a wash and the nominal $ stays flat long term. But the land is scarce and appreciates along with inflation AND productive use of housing. (peoples' same inflation-adjusted consumption of housing ends up using less and less land, like condos, and so the land appreciates even faster than inflation until population growth stalls.)

Re: Rents for the rich are going down, rents for the poor are going up. Why?

#189

Post by dillondoyle » Tue, Mar 23, 2021, 5:05 AM UTC

AnthonyMouse wrote: post #142

Lammy wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you ever seen people talk about how the 13th Amendment to the US Constitution outlaws slavery "except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted", leading to the modern prison-industrial complex that overwhelmingly targets black Americans with arrests for petty crimes and traps them in The System? https://sites.lib.jmu.edu/civic/2020/09/17/slaves-of-the-sta... The ECOA makes it il…

> The exception is that discrimination is still totally legal if the person just can't afford the home. It's also important to remember how this applies to school districts. If you exclude the poor from your neighborhood, you also exclude them from your school district. (This explains part of the otherwise unexpected opposition to school vouchers by college-educated affluent Democrats and the support for them by rura…

What's super disgusting is charging mothers who can't afford to live in your district but still wanted to give their child the best education she could, so she used her dad's address...

https://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/434051-sto...

another example, not as 'clean', but they still charged enrolling her kid larceny...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tanya_McDowell

Re: Rents for the rich are going down, rents for the poor are going up. Why?

#190

Post by nubbins » Tue, Mar 23, 2021, 5:10 AM UTC

chrisseaton wrote: post #133

roguecoder wrote: post #17

While the article is interesting, there is one dynamic it missed: tech debt. Starting around 1975, housing supply stopped keeping up with the growth of housing demand. It picked back up fifteen years later, around 1990: https://www.brookings.edu/research/the-goldilocks-problem-of... (But that is on a national level: in the West, in comparison, housing growth hasn't been sufficient to house the new households formed a…

> Since many cities currently lack the recently-aging housing that would normally be filtering down market right now Huh.... in the UK house prices go up for older houses. You'd pay a premium to get an interwar house, or a 19th century house. Do people not like old houses in the US? They're usually better built, with more character, built on more land, in my experience.

That may be a perk of having had an aristocratic ruling class, the first industrial revolution, and global empire (not being sarcastic- I'm a big Hidden Houses of Wales fan, would love to renovate an old castle). The UK was historically wealthy and has amazing old houses. In the US every decade has had significantly better housing stock with increasing standards of living, so its much less appealing to get an older house in 95% of the country. Especially anything 40s - 70s you get smallish rooms, low ceilings and questionable "vintage" building practices like I'm dealing with now (aluminum wiring, poor insulation, etc).