Why the Wuhan lab leak theory shouldn't be dismissed • Hacker News Board

Re: Why the Wuhan lab leak theory shouldn't be dismissed

#661

Post by JPKab » Tue, Mar 23, 2021, 2:43 AM UTC

kodah wrote: post #649

gregwebs wrote: post #397

This is a great article explaining why a lab leak should always be a suspect. The alternative theory is that a virus traveled on its own (via bats or other animals) from bat caves 900km away to Wuhan where there are 2 labs researching bats. One of the labs is lesser known but is right next to the seafood market and the hospital where the outbreak was first known. [1] This article points out that a lab outbreak could…

It's really ludicrous that anyone gets conspiratorial about the CCP spreading a bioweapon that originates in their own country. They snuck military scientists into the US to tap into coronavirus research. The most simple litmus test I can think of is if China led the race for a vaccine, but they didn't. People really need to stop and think, because next time that lab could be in your country. With icebergs and permaf…

Bioweapon is not the same as an accidental lab leak of a virus altered to accelerate research.

The latter is highly likely, the former is ludicrous.

Regardless, the CCP were clearly hiding something.

Re: Why the Wuhan lab leak theory shouldn't be dismissed

#662

Post by JPKab » Tue, Mar 23, 2021, 2:45 AM UTC

anthony_romeo wrote: post #484

gregwebs wrote: post #397

This is a great article explaining why a lab leak should always be a suspect. The alternative theory is that a virus traveled on its own (via bats or other animals) from bat caves 900km away to Wuhan where there are 2 labs researching bats. One of the labs is lesser known but is right next to the seafood market and the hospital where the outbreak was first known. [1] This article points out that a lab outbreak could…

I agree. Personally I’ve not dismissed this possibility at all. But as it stands, it’s just a hypothesis with suggestive information, but nothing concrete. There are verified wrongs to criticize them for right now, and can be a starting point for remediation, rather than drum up hate and criticism of mere hypothetical wrongs. (And of course, one such example of a verifiable wrong could be proof of Chinese institution…

The lack of concrete evidence wasn't an accident. The CCP deliberately prevented it's collection.

Re: Why the Wuhan lab leak theory shouldn't be dismissed

#663

Post by moosey » Tue, Mar 23, 2021, 2:47 AM UTC

tedk-42 wrote: post #658

All these speculation pieces and theories without any proof at all. My issue with the theory is it lights a fuel under people for more racism against asians in general. Until there's solid evidence, everyone should dismiss it as just that - a theory.

Right. If everyone wants a scapegoat there is a real one that we can all focus on: meat consumption. 1918 flu pandemic probably started on a pig farm. This one at a wet market. We encroach on nature to make more corn and soy for meat, the outcome will be more diseases and death, and that doesn't even include the health issues and dangerous conditions required for cheap meat.

This isn't a theory, unfortunately, but since it requires self reflection it will never be a popular story in the US media. I admit I have seen it discussed in print several times.

Re: Why the Wuhan lab leak theory shouldn't be dismissed

#664

Post by brankoB » Tue, Mar 23, 2021, 2:48 AM UTC

nemothekid wrote: post #608

thereisnospork wrote: post #603

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is important to be able to call it the 'China virus' for all the reasons China doesn't want it to be called that - names have power and squelching one to avoid offending a country is at best a slippery slope.

The “power” you are exerting is the one killing innocent American citizens. The CCP doesn’t give a flying fuck that you are calling it China virus. That you would put American lives at risk for some superficial insult at the CCP says you care more about your perceived superiority than actually solving problems pertaining to the virus. Again it is Americans who are dying, not the Chinese.

I can't imagine a situation in which someone dies because I used the term China virus.

Also the CCP definitely cares. Negative PR for a country which is a major exporter is a bad thing for the country.

Re: Why the Wuhan lab leak theory shouldn't be dismissed

#665

Post by thereisnospork » Tue, Mar 23, 2021, 2:49 AM UTC

standardUser wrote: post #613

thereisnospork wrote: post #603

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is important to be able to call it the 'China virus' for all the reasons China doesn't want it to be called that - names have power and squelching one to avoid offending a country is at best a slippery slope.

You can call it the China virus if you want. You can't be cited or sued for doing so. But most people prefer to avoid terms that can reasonably be linked to harassment and violence against minorities. Your argument also assumes that there is some need to inform people of the origin of COVID-19. There is not. We all know it originated in China and most people now even know the name of China's 9th largest city.

Why are you conflating 'china virus' with violence and racism? China is a country.

>We all know it originated in China and most people now even know the name of China's 9th largest city.

And history should continue to reflect this fact by naming the virus after it's origin instead of this Orwellian tip-toeing around refusing to call a spade a spade.

Re: Why the Wuhan lab leak theory shouldn't be dismissed

#666

Post by h_anna_h » Tue, Mar 23, 2021, 2:50 AM UTC

dv35z wrote: post #632

dang wrote: post #494

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of course. The issue is simply that it needs to happen within the site guidelines, for example this one: " Comments should get more thoughtful and substantive, not less, as a topic gets more divisive. " ( https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html ) Commenters here need to learn the difference between posting in the flamewar style and having curious conversation. The issue is not the topic—it's which mode peopl…

Excellent comment. Bookmarking this & stealing for future references. Thanks Dang for such insightful comments. It’s refreshing.

Excellent bootlicking.

Re: Why the Wuhan lab leak theory shouldn't be dismissed

#667

Post by BoorishBears » Tue, Mar 23, 2021, 2:53 AM UTC

BoorishBears wrote: post #430

I think the theory should be dismissed because it's not falseable. Right now, there is no question that say, the US military has samples of Coronavirus. Not for nefarious reasons mind you, but of course it's of military importance to study a global virus if only to work on vaccines and such. Even if Coronavirus originated in nature, going forward if there is ever a new outbreak, you technically can't prove it wasn't…

It's weird that this is such an unpopular concept to some people

If a child insists you have cooties (the fictitious ones, not lice) do you fight them to the bitter end?

You can never prove definitively that you don't since, of course they're not real, and the child gets to define the criteria for having them "oh you can't see cooties with a microscope, only I can!"

It's not about implying the Wuhan lab did release the vaccine, but it's about realizing chasing a conclusion that is not falsible is never going to give you a scientific conclusion.

-

Most of the current lab leak theories revolve around:

> But it’s also possible that SARS-CoV-2 evolved naturally in the wild before it was brought into a lab to be studied, only to subsequently escape.

At the end of the day you're saying the one thing you can freely observe indicates it was not man-made, but due to factors you can never observe (with an extremely closed country with a government structure that strongly discourages a mistake like this ever being properly attributed even if there wasn't immense pressure to not have this come out as the case)

Well when it comes to pinning blame on a country for releasing a virus that leads to a pandemic, "if it quacks like a duck" doesn't pass does it?

-

Why not spend energy looking at how we went from a virus shutting down a city in mainland China to 500k deaths in the US and all the mistakes made along the way there rather than chasing the equivalent of saying another kid gave us cooties on purpose...

Re: Why the Wuhan lab leak theory shouldn't be dismissed

#668

Post by FuckButtons » Tue, Mar 23, 2021, 2:53 AM UTC

Utter bollocks. The most galling thing about this is that the more conspiracy theories get spun out the less people are going to hold the global developing world agricultural sector to account and the more likely this is to happen again.

Re: Why the Wuhan lab leak theory shouldn't be dismissed

#669

Post by zensavona » Tue, Mar 23, 2021, 2:57 AM UTC

incompatible wrote: post #642

Aeolun wrote: post #571

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> However, CCP’s resistance to a proper thorough study of the origins of COVID is IMO not exactly appropriate. It is, in fact, highly suspect. I’m not at all positive that it indeed leaked from a lab in Wuhan, but the fact they won’t let an independent investigation anywhere near it makes me lean more strongly towards that as a possibility. The description of the last investigation into the origins of the virus felt…

I don't think that's quite accurate: https://thewest.com.au/news/health/who-team-visits-wuhan-res...

Except that it was (allegedly) a whole load of BS https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=evHFsNSMTLM

Re: Why the Wuhan lab leak theory shouldn't be dismissed

#670

Post by andai » Tue, Mar 23, 2021, 3:00 AM UTC

ajross wrote: post #598

gregwebs wrote: post #397

This is a great article explaining why a lab leak should always be a suspect. The alternative theory is that a virus traveled on its own (via bats or other animals) from bat caves 900km away to Wuhan where there are 2 labs researching bats. One of the labs is lesser known but is right next to the seafood market and the hospital where the outbreak was first known. [1] This article points out that a lab outbreak could…

There is no requirement that bats be transported to Wuhan. It's close to a known bat virus, and that's all we know. There are local bats in Wuhan, needless to say. Other species can easily be involved. The truth is that there is nothing particularly surprising about the way this virus evolved. Fundamentally this is a pandemic like any other. They happen in some species or another every year. And that, more than anyth…

> In 2015, an international team including two scientists from the institute [Wuhan Institute of Virology] published successful research on whether a bat coronavirus could be made to infect HeLa. The team engineered a hybrid virus, combining a bat coronavirus with a SARS virus that had been adapted to grow in mice and mimic human disease. The hybrid virus was able to infect human cells.[11][12]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wuhan_Institute_of_Virology#Co...