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The absolute worst scenario happened

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Re: The absolute worst scenario happened

#481

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This. I actually think just documentation is, well not completely worthless but close to. Imagine telling someone they could learn to weld airframes by reading. Just no.

For software, it’s the maintenance task that’s helped by documentation not building. They still need to know how to build but it’s a lot easier with documentation. I know that when we use software packages we all rely on the documentation to understand how to use it and code our desired behaviors. It’s obvious that our own code can benefit from documentation in the same way.

documentation is required but not sufficient. also, documentation is usually outdated really fast if the person maintaining the system leaves and/or does not care

Re: The absolute worst scenario happened

#482

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is the reason tariffs exist. You levy a fee that makes the imported food cost as much as food picked using domestic labor.

Or, you know, you let unprofitable endeavors be substituted by profitable ones, and you just import food from different places where it is profitable. Just make sure not to wage war with them all. That's always an alternative to subsidies and tariffs, but it's not as politically useful.

This is how the US gave up its ability to manufacture so many goods.

Re: The absolute worst scenario happened

#483

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Op says he did provide documentation but they lost it (and hadn't been backing up) after he left

Of course, but that wouldn't stop them from saying otherwise, suing and binding him in prelonged and expensive legal battle, would it?

sure it does. the company would have to prove malicious intent beyond a reasonable doubt and not leaving adequate documentation absolutely does not meet that requirement.

Re: The absolute worst scenario happened

#484

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Op says he did provide documentation but they lost it (and hadn't been backing up) after he left

Of course, but that wouldn't stop them from saying otherwise, suing and binding him in prelonged and expensive legal battle, would it?

This seems absolutely unrealistic to me. Can you find a precedent? A single precedent of the company suing an engineer (individual contributor, not a manager) for quality of work after he left? I think if they tried they would have been laughed out of court; and out of all their future contracts, too.

Re: The absolute worst scenario happened

#485

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The issue with "documentation" is there are never enough resources devoted to it at most companies. When given a schedule it only covers the main project goal(s) and no time for documentation or refactoring or any quality of life improvements. Significant documentation is also not something easily written in slack time. With any non-trivial project good documentation is a full time effort. It also needs to be updated…

Part of a way around this is broadening your definition of "documentation". For example, in code: good naming, simple structure, unit tests, and useful comments all can count. A set of easy-to-understand unit tests that cover real scenarios is much better than even the greatest documentation ever written. A fully scripted build and ideally also deployment (CI/CD pipeline) beats a checklist with tens of items that hav…

> For example, in code: good naming, simple structure, unit tests, and useful comments all can count. A set of easy-to-understand unit tests that cover real scenarios is much better than even the greatest documentation ever written.

1. Naming things is hard. It's a bit of a joke but good descriptive yet usable naming is hard. It can get harder after refactoring or adding in features you didn't expect the last time you were in the module.

2. Project structures start out simple. Then you need to add some feature or fix some major issue with a due date of last week. As a project gets bigger the simple structure of yesterday might not serve the needs of today. Resources for refactoring are usually somewhere around the priority level of "Good Documentation".

3. Comments need maintenance like explicit documentation. Tight schedules lead to "# TODO add documentation here". Then you get the assholes that believe comments or in-line documentation is something you put in check in notes.

4. A "unit test" that covers a "real scenario" is not a damned unit test. It's an integration test (or however you label it) and it's not likely something your CI/CD system can run on the regular. If a real scenario is touching a production-load DB or something it's a big deal to run the test. Tests like that need resources to run and non-trivial resources to write. You're not just making sure a method returns a float or throws an error correctly.

I'm not saying your suggestions are bad or shouldn't be used. The issue is management rarely sees any value with documentation, tests, or even code cleanliness. They're rarely incentivized to care about those things so they don't. They get their bonus on feature checkboxes or hitting a deadline. At the end of a project they'll schedule a "documentation" sprint or some dumbass thing that accomplished little useful output. It's worse when you've got a "move fast break things" chanting moron doing the scheduling.

Re: The absolute worst scenario happened

#486

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IMO your edit didn't help and you're not getting a lot of sympathy. The point wasn't that the employee is psychopathic as you say, but that management was incompetent by not ensuring a transfer of knowledge and validating before the employee left. You as the buinsess owner should plan for people to not be available and no one person can derail a $10M contract. This is also called the "bus factor". https://en.wikipedi…

Also yelling at someone who is the only person who can solve your problem is not a good negotiating strategy, especially when it reminds them of why they left. Walking away from a toxic situation is not "psychopathic." It's common sense and if we all did it more then the psychopaths who expect us to stick around through it all would finally learn how to treat other people with respect. It's a job, not a marriage.

> yelling at someone who is the only person who can solve your problem is not a good negotiating strategy

Sadly, I've seen this. Not first hand, but it happened to a friend and I have no reason to doubt his version of the story.

Re: The absolute worst scenario happened

#487

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Consider that you are only hearing one side of the story and taking it entirely at face value.

I think enough of us have been on the same side of this story that we feel fairly comfortable taking it at face value, even if we're only applying it to said personal experience in a wishful fashion.

Yeah, HN at it's finest I suppose. He's like you, he says what you want to hear, therefore you believe him. No need to consider the possibility that maybe there might actually be another point-of-view.

Re: The absolute worst scenario happened

#488

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Funnily enough it made me sick to my stomach. I manage a small company and the idea of being extorted in such a blasé and psychopathic fashion terrifies me to even think about.

This is not extortion. The company made choices that left significant leverage in the hands of another business. That business correctly perceived the value of the services it could render and priced them accordingly. This is exactly the free market at work regarding labor. Have a problem with the free market if you like, many of us do but do not accuse this poster of criminal action equivalent to a protection racket…

What's the rationale for doubling the first price ? Why is it a more fair price ?

Re: The absolute worst scenario happened

#489
post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

European here. Having 3 months written in your contract (and in many countries by law, like France) is pretty common. You can still quit if both parties agree. I've done it before. The clause is there to avoid this type of scenario where a key employee just says fuck it and leave. It works both ways. So a company can say fuck it and fire you just because they want to. It's a fantastic system. It can be exploited, but…

> The clause is there to avoid this type of scenario where a key employee just says fuck it and leave. If they are at the "fuck it" point, what's going to force them to be useful and productive during the forced 3 month notice period?

> If they are at the "fuck it" point, what's going to force them to be useful and productive during the forced 3 month notice period?

Nothing - beyond professionalism. It is common for knowledge transfer to happen in this time, and any outstanding vacation days are usually taken at this time.

There's a huge cultural difference between US and Europe (rest of world?) when it comes to going to work after serving notice. It appears the employer/employee relationship is more adversarial, so much so that the employee is not trusted/expected to do the right thing after being fired (or after they quit) - the whole "immediately getting escorted out of the building by security" is unheard of in Europe.

Re: The absolute worst scenario happened

#490

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is not extortion. The company made choices that left significant leverage in the hands of another business. That business correctly perceived the value of the services it could render and priced them accordingly. This is exactly the free market at work regarding labor. Have a problem with the free market if you like, many of us do but do not accuse this poster of criminal action equivalent to a protection racket…

What's the rationale for doubling the first price ? Why is it a more fair price ?

The market answer to that is, the seller underpriced their services to begin with, regardless of the personal motivation for increasing the price.

To clarify, the market would likely not allow this specific work to be sold at this price normally. But the buyer wasn't just buying specific work they were buying specific work to be completed by a specific date. The work in isolation does not have this value but the work completed by a certain day does. Companies use this rationale all the time charging more for expedited services.

It's especially common in construction and manufacturing where costs double or even triple when expedited delivery is required.

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