That we’re finally seeing some mainstream discussion around this hypothesis should not change the scary fact that months ago governments, scientists and media happily and immediately rejected it as a xenophobic conspiracy theory. The messaging and subsequent ease at which public opinion was influenced should make everyone pause and think hard about other ways they might be being manipulated.
Why the Wuhan lab leak theory shouldn't be dismissed
151–160 of 1001 posts
Re: Why the Wuhan lab leak theory shouldn't be dismissed
#152The thing that really lends credibility to this theory is that nation states have been suspicious of this from the first few months. These are not ding bat facebook groups but countries that have a fair amount at stake by voicing these concerns and yet they still brought it up. I'm 7/10 that the lab leak theory has legs.
Re: Why the Wuhan lab leak theory shouldn't be dismissed
#153Earlier quoted context omitted.
Evidence points to it _not_ being from the wet markets in China: https://www.livescience.com/covid-19-did-not-start-at-wuhan-...
Your source cites the WSJ, which itself cites the Wuhan Virology Institute, which is trying to imply that China may not be the origin of CoVid at all, so I don't believe it.
Try this one:
Lab Leak: A Scientific Debate Mired in Politics — and Unresolved [March 22, 2021]
https://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/947620
https://www.outline.com/XCTFJJ (registration-wall bypass)
Re: Why the Wuhan lab leak theory shouldn't be dismissed
#154https://project-evidence.github.io/
I found this to be an extremely engaging read and compelling story.
TLDR; The likelihood of it being lab related is high. The likelihood of it being directly malicious low.
My Take form reading it: The lab in question needed to collect bats for research. A person who collected the bats did so with insufficient safety and is likely patient 0.
Re: Why the Wuhan lab leak theory shouldn't be dismissed
#155This article is written by a journalist who is clearly knowledgeable about safety practices and mistakes in US labs, but does not consider the extensive knowledge we have about the sequence of SARS-COV2. The preponderance of evidence supports a natural origin of the virus. This is no way exonerates the Wuhan government from possible culpability—indeed government officials did deliberately suppress information—but thi…
You are indeed misunderstanding the point. Smallpox is also naturally originating virus. That doesn't prohibit it from leaking from a lab.
The author is irresponsibility propagating a conspiracy theory and elevating its status in the public’s mind.
I’m a bioscientist. It’s frustrating to respond with evidence and in good faith, and be downvoted by those who simply disagree. But sadly it appears that the loudest voice prevails over reason.
Re: Why the Wuhan lab leak theory shouldn't be dismissed
#156I have three perspectives here I want to share. (1) Let's address the glass windows in our own house first and tighten the US policies and culture. Secrecy is not a good idea here. Without even reflecting on Covid, it is clear the author has been dealing with this a while, and the US needs to improve. I am reminded of discussions on the old '50s/'60s nuclear culture... (2) A year later, it may not be possible for the…
1. The virus did not originate in our own house. Seems like a deflection to say we should focus on ourselves when we're starting at evidence that Chinese missteps could have caused a global pandemic that has killed millions and upended life for billions.
2. Doesn't mean we shouldn't try. We should also acknowledge that an investigation much earlier on could have happened if it were not for Chinese government obstructionism and cover-ups.
3. Why do you not care about where it came from? The allegation at hand is that China's irresponsible scientific experimentation "created" this virus (intentional oversimplification) and allowed it to leak. If the truth never comes out, and China is never held accountable, the same thing could happen again. Why is your sole interest the global response to the pandemic as opposed to the missteps that caused the pandemic in the first place?
Re: Why the Wuhan lab leak theory shouldn't be dismissed
#157If true, I think this would be the first ever case of a novel virus ever being developed in a lab and then accidentally released.
If false, then it's yet another viral mutation / species cross over which have happened all the time throughout history.
When I hear hoofbeats I think "horses" not "zebras"...
Re: Why the Wuhan lab leak theory shouldn't be dismissed
#158My understanding of the author's central thesis is this: the US, despite its world-class virology and disease study labs, regularly has lapses in procedure that regularly lead to situations in which the public might be exposed. Given that this is happening in our own backyard, we might reasonably expect countries of similar status (like China) to experience similar lapses.
That reads as reasonable to me, but raises a subsequent question: if these lapses are so common and so many countries possess the capacity for serious mistakes, why don't we see more regular outbreaks (if not full-blown pandemics) caused by labs? In other words, what makes COVID special? I didn't find a satisfactory answer to the latter question in the article.
It's my (uninformed, uneducated) opinion that the severity of the author's claims don't correspond to the reality of the last few national and international disease crises (AIDS, Ebola, Zika, COVID). Which isn't to say that we should absolutely dismiss the possibility that COVID originated in a lab, only that claims that it did amount to currently unsubstantiated claims about COVID's special status among other recent pandemics.
Re: Why the Wuhan lab leak theory shouldn't be dismissed
#159Earlier quoted context omitted.
Not really. The lab is in a major city, and imported samples from all over China (and the rest of the world). The hypothesized bat in question, if it was really a wet-market outbreak, was imported from hundreds of miles away.
It's also been reported that it wasn't the season for the bat species. Those in favour of the lab leak hypothesis point out that the virus showed up on the scene with all the evolutionary capability to spread amongst humans i.e with batteries included. With previous Sars viruses my understanding is that each zoonotic jump was traceable with examples of previous forms in prior animal hosts to corroborate the lineage.…
You are mixing two theories here:
A) A lab leak
B) Gain of function research.
My understanding is that A) is very much possible because it has happened before (SARS), but we have no evidence yet (and might never acquire).
For B) however, from my limited understanding, there is no strong evidence. We only know about a fraction of existing coronaviruses out there and given we observe one, that has caused a pandemic, the (conditional!) probability that it is well adapted is extremely high (survivorship bias).
If you have a credible source that claims B) please share it.
Re: Why the Wuhan lab leak theory shouldn't be dismissed
#160How soon before stuff like this is marked as misinformation if it isn't coming from established media outlets? You know, dangerous conspiracy theories, and all that. Real world consequences, etc. and so forth.
Are you saying an opinion piece stating that we should leave open the possibility of a leak is misinformation? That doesn't make any sense.
No, I was echoing the mainstream media and many articles - including on this very site - pushing and wishing and demanding a crackdown on misinformation. And I sarcastically asked the crowd whether this article means only mainstream media outlets are allowed, permitted, to suggest conspiracies.