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Richard Stallman is coming back to the board of the FSF

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Re: Richard Stallman is coming back to the board of the FSF

#781

Post by visitor1 »

henearkr wrote: post #123
JohnHaugeland wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please stop. He argued that pedophilia was okay.

[edit: I got the context wrong, see children comments] The commented pedophilia was the allegated one of Marvin Minsky with a 17 yo girl, whose coercion (by Epstein) into sexual acts was maybe (probably, in the words of RMS) not made clear to Minsky (nor the age). I precise, because 17 yo is a quite mature age for sexual activity (and more so for a girl than for a boy, because the sexual maturity of the body happens…

We don't even know how old Giuffre was when the alleged sexual encounter occurred --assuming it did occur. She was born August 9, 1983, in the deposition she doesn't remember the time.

Re: Richard Stallman is coming back to the board of the FSF

#782

Post by visitor1 »

pseudalopex wrote: post #753
adrian_b wrote: post #547

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is that pedophilia has a much wider meaning in the USA that in many other parts of the world. I do not believe that any sane human being believes that pedophilia in the sense understood by himself/herself is OK in any circumstances. Nevertheless there are millions or billions of humans who do not consider as pedophilia some acts that are considered pedophilia in USA, therefore they consider that those act…

Stallman was talking about actual children.[1] [1] https://stallman.org/notes/2019-jan-apr.html#25_April_2019_(...

That's the post where RMS says "sexual offender" is not the right term for Epstein, and suggests "serial-rapist" instead.

He was right. In fact, Epstein himself declared "I’m not a sexual predator, I’m an “offender.” It’s the difference between a murderer and a person who steals a bagel." https://nypost.com/2011/02/25/billionaire-jeffrey-epstein-im...

Re: Richard Stallman is coming back to the board of the FSF

#783

Post by arp242 »

africanboy wrote: post #588
arp242 wrote: post #465

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, accomplishments in his 35 years include: - A major fracture in the movement (arguably two, if you count GPL2/3). - Actively turning people off (Keith Packard, for example, described why they didn't license X under the GPL: "we had met Richard, and found him a challenging individual"; he later admitted that Stallman was right and that he should have listened). - Sidetracking of pointless issues ("GNU/Linux", "you…

According to this comment, he did better than any other leader in the World. > Alienating of many people who are generally keen on most of the Free Software principles Did donations went up or down during his leadership? And what happened when he "left"? How many people found out that Stallman was right in retrospect? > Insisting on absolute freedom to the detriment of more freedom than the status quo. That's the cor…

That last "Our Core Work" paragraph is hilarious and straight from 1996. The special mention that Savannah gets makes it double hilarious, since it's the worst code repository software ever created and was already stale in 2001.

If you want FSF to be some sort of "by hackers, for hackers" thing: sure, go for it. If you want anything more: lolno. The FSF is Free Software's worst enemy.

Re: Richard Stallman is coming back to the board of the FSF

#784

Post by zucker42 »

nrclark wrote: post #767
noobermin wrote: post #492

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I guess more of what I'm asking is how rms contributed to GNU's lack of traction rather than whether it is declining/not gaining traction or not.

I know that this opinion is controversial - but I think GPLv3 really hurt GNU a lot. And that license was 100% RMS's doing, as well as the decision to force it onto most/all GNU projects. GPLv3 basically forced the embedded Linux community to dump the GNU userspace in favor of Busybox. That's a lot of active developers who stopped using and contributing to Bash, Coreutils, and a whole host of other projects. RMS prop…

Why did GPLv3 force the embedded Linux community to drop GNU?

Re: Richard Stallman is coming back to the board of the FSF

#785

Post by pseudalopex »

visitor1 wrote: post #782
pseudalopex wrote: post #753

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Stallman was talking about actual children.[1] [1] https://stallman.org/notes/2019-jan-apr.html#25_April_2019_(...

That's the post where RMS says "sexual offender" is not the right term for Epstein, and suggests "serial-rapist" instead. He was right. In fact, Epstein himself declared "I’m not a sexual predator, I’m an “offender.” It’s the difference between a murderer and a person who steals a bagel." https://nypost.com/2011/02/25/billionaire-jeffrey-epstein-im...

How is that relevant to what Stallman meant when he talked about pedophilia?

Re: Richard Stallman is coming back to the board of the FSF

#786

Post by DreamScatter »

kaba0 wrote: post #717
zajio1am wrote: post #643

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Would Stallman work on implementing a DRM? It is a big difference working on A with people i disagree about B, and actively working against one's values. I can work with non-vegetarians on software, but i would not work in slaughterhouse. > And not in this case, but what about someone denying the other’s existence? As an LGBT person (and pro same-sex marriage), i think that mixing up 'being against same-sex marriag…

I don’t see what are you disagreeing with. I only mentioned the Mozilla case, but I was talking about the topic in general. Vehemently disagreeing with something is not working with vegans/non-vegans. Denying the other’s existence in case of trans people is unfortunately quite common. Do you think a Jewish person can work together with a nazi?

[flagged]

Re: Richard Stallman is coming back to the board of the FSF

#787

Post by cyberbanjo »

zucker42 wrote: post #784
nrclark wrote: post #767

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know that this opinion is controversial - but I think GPLv3 really hurt GNU a lot. And that license was 100% RMS's doing, as well as the decision to force it onto most/all GNU projects. GPLv3 basically forced the embedded Linux community to dump the GNU userspace in favor of Busybox. That's a lot of active developers who stopped using and contributing to Bash, Coreutils, and a whole host of other projects. RMS prop…

Why did GPLv3 force the embedded Linux community to drop GNU?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tivoization#GNU_GPLv3

Re: Richard Stallman is coming back to the board of the FSF

#788

Post by pseudalopex »

yongjik wrote: post #258

We've all heard of the bus factor. Software project isn't a one-man show. There's no shortage of brilliant pioneers handing the baton to someone else or just sliding into obscurity for any number of reasons (e.g., got bored, found another passion, started a new project, gone off the rail, etc.). People no longer care about ESR's opinions, and that's OK. There's no reason FSF should need Stallman's continued presence…

Your point works better without the last sentence.

Re: Richard Stallman is coming back to the board of the FSF

#789

Post by prepend »

pseudalopex wrote: post #752
prepend wrote: post #551

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> someone post-pubescent but below the age of consent I think an adult having sexual acts with a minor is not good because of the power imbalance. At the time of the act, the age of consent in that jurisdiction was 16 [0], so the person was not below the age of consent. It has since been changed to 18. I’m not agreeing with having a low age of consent, but since that’s a legal term, I’m posting this just to help you…

"Crossing state lines to have sexual relations invokes federal law. The federal age of consent is 18."[1] [1] https://www.cwsdefense.com/blog/2020/january/state-lines-and...

Again, I think any sex with a minor is unethical, regardless of law. But in this particulars of Minsky’s situation he didn’t cross state lines for purposes of sex, he crossed for other purposes. IANAL, but I think this would be important for determining if age of consent was violated. If there was some sign of intent that Minsky planned on traveling just to sex this person then I think the reference you provided applies. But if he went for genuine other purposes then it would not.

Arguing for purposes of nerd accuracy (or whatever you call it) not based on any endorsement of circumventing age of consent laws or abusing individuals.

Re: Richard Stallman is coming back to the board of the FSF

#790

Post by pseudalopex »

nobody9999 wrote: post #222
rodgerd wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But at the same time RMS has been attacked for some statements very probably stemming from his autism tha rms has repeatedly said he does not suffer from autism. Even if he did, there is nothing about autism that compels you to try and legitimize child sexual offenders.

>Even if he did, there is nothing about autism that compels you to try and legitimize child sexual offenders. Where, exactly , did RMS do so? This isn't a troll or a "gotcha" either. All the claims about RMS doing so are from now public statements by RMS. Please provide (with appropriate context) evidence for the assertion that RMS tried to "legitimize child sexual offenders." If you perform that exercise in good fai…

Stallman said pedophilia is "illegal only because of prejudice and narrowmindedness".[1] He must have meant the act because the paraphilia isn't illegal. He dismissed people who believe children can't consent as "parents who are horrified by the idea that their little baby is maturing".[2] He didn't mean adolescents.[3]

Having sex with a child is an offense in most countries.[4] Offender means someone who commits an offense.

[1] https://stallman.org/archives/2003-may-aug.html#28%20June%20...()

[2] https://www.stallman.org/archives/2006-may-aug.html#05%20Jun...

[3] https://stallman.org/archives/2019-jan-apr.html#25_April_201...

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