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Red seaweed supplementation reduces enteric methane by over 80% in beef steers

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Re: Red seaweed supplementation reduces enteric methane by over 80% in beef steers

#121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This point relies on the assumption that the cattle are out eating grass (or other plants) which would naturally be growing and rotting without human intervention. This is kinda not true. Grazing systems supply about 9 percent of the world's production of beef [1]. 80% of the global soybean crop is used to feed livestock [2]. A lot of these soybeans are grown on land that used to be rainforest. Your comparison should…

Surely its clear that if the soybeans aren't growing in the field that something else that grows, dies and decomposes would be.

Yeah, and we even have a word for the "something else" that you're describing - its a rainforest.

Re: Red seaweed supplementation reduces enteric methane by over 80% in beef steers

#122

There is an incredibly important part of this that I feel everyone is missing. The grass eaten by the cows would produce exactly as much methane if it was just left to rot. It's not as if cows somehow produce methane out of grass that would otherwise just....turn into dust? None of those studies take this into account, they all just measure what comes into a cow and what comes out, but no one takes into account the a…

That simply can’t be true in the wild. If that much carbon was released from plants in the wild, we’d never have coal or oil, right? Composting the grass might be the same as cows, but that process doesn’t happen everywhere there’s grass. In the wild, the grass would be trampled and new grass would sprout up to cover it, layers of soil would be generated. But honestly I’m just guessing, but your claim seems so far of…

Coal and oil come from carbon captured during the Carboniferous period, before the evolution of species of bacteria and fungi that could digest the lignin in plants.

Coal and oil formation is not being fed by plant life today. The carbon in plants is recycled rather quickly in to the ecosphere.

Re: Red seaweed supplementation reduces enteric methane by over 80% in beef steers

#123

There is an incredibly important part of this that I feel everyone is missing. The grass eaten by the cows would produce exactly as much methane if it was just left to rot. It's not as if cows somehow produce methane out of grass that would otherwise just....turn into dust? None of those studies take this into account, they all just measure what comes into a cow and what comes out, but no one takes into account the a…

That simply can’t be true in the wild. If that much carbon was released from plants in the wild, we’d never have coal or oil, right? Composting the grass might be the same as cows, but that process doesn’t happen everywhere there’s grass. In the wild, the grass would be trampled and new grass would sprout up to cover it, layers of soil would be generated. But honestly I’m just guessing, but your claim seems so far of…

I’m really glad you asked that! The reason we have coal and oil today is that earlier in Earth’s history microorganisms lacked the enzyme to metabolize cellulose (the most abundant bioorganic material). So until then, it was buried and accumulated as fossil fuels.

Today’s ecosystem can metabolize cellulose, so no more fossil fuel production. Quite literally an unsustainable fuel!

Re: Red seaweed supplementation reduces enteric methane by over 80% in beef steers

#124
post #113
post #93

Not eating cows or drinking cow milk reduces your carbon emissions from cows 100%. You actually don't need technology or a start up to solve this issue!

This isn't true unless your substitute is to eat nothing.

The "from cows" technically makes it pretty much true. Regardless, it's not a constructive comment for that reason.

Re: Red seaweed supplementation reduces enteric methane by over 80% in beef steers

#125
A common misconception which I frequently see when this topic arises is the failure to distinguish carbon cycles and one-way carbon emission.

You exhale carbon dioxide. However, this carbon dioxide comes from the carbon in the food you eat, and the food you eat obtained it from the atmosphere. Thus, it's a cycle. As a system (ignoring food transportation, deforestation, etc.) it's effectively carbon neutral.

By contrast, when we dig up oil and burn it, there is no cycle. It's a one way street.

Methane production from cattle is slightly more complicated instance of a carbon cycle. The cows produce methane, which is a more potent greenhouse gas than carbon dioxide. However, it degrades in the atmosphere into C02. Since this C02 was obtained from the food the cattle ate, this is another cycle.

Since the methane released from cattle is continually degrading, it does not accumulate. The total amount of bovine methane resident in the atmosphere is ultimately a function of herd size, or perhaps more accurately quantity of feed consumed.

You may be surprised to learn that cattle herd size has remained relatively stable over time. Additionally our planet was once host to wild ruminants like Buffalo which no longer exist in large numbers. As a result I would be very surprised to learn that bovine methane production is completely out of historical context.

As a result I see this as a topic which generally serves to distract from the root cause and real problem associated with climate change - fossil fuel usage.

Re: Red seaweed supplementation reduces enteric methane by over 80% in beef steers

#126
post #6

I guess everything helps, but we put so much effort into the problems with easy solutions, that could be invested into the difficult stuff. Livestock contributes to 15% of all greenhouse gasses. But the solution is easy, cheap, and only midly inconvenient. Going vegan. This has the added benefit of protecting threatened ecosystems in the rainforrest and seas. We could then spend that energy on the difficult stuff. Fa…

> But the solution is easy, cheap, and only midly inconvenient. Making ~99% of people vegans is anything but easy, cheap, and mildly inconvenient. In fact, it is impossible (until we manage to replicate meat in the lab). Your view is ridiculously myopic; I will not and most people will not stop eating meat anytime soon. It is a simple fact and you must accept it before trying to solve this. Real solutions are somethi…

To put things in perspective, I'm still trying to convince the in-laws to recycle basic things like paper and plastic instead of simply burning it in a barrel in the back-yard, and to recycle glass and metal instead of just throwing it in the bin. Because, you know, recycling is "mildly inconvenient".

Re: Red seaweed supplementation reduces enteric methane by over 80% in beef steers

#127
post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> None of those studies take this into account, they all just measure what comes into a cow and what comes out, but no one takes into account the amount of methane produced from the same feed even without cows involved. Nobody's missing anything. That feed wouldn't have been planted in the first place if it weren't for feeding the cows. And that would translate to less deforestation [1]. [1] https://www.bbc.com/news/…

Then just buy American beef, which is produced without any deforestation.

Are you accounting for animal feed grown on deforested lands?

Re: Red seaweed supplementation reduces enteric methane by over 80% in beef steers

#128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Only grass decomposed in an anaerobic environment would produce methane. Grass decomposed aerobically would produce CO2 instead.

But methane decomposes into CO2 on a relatively short timescale(12 years?) so surely....it's a wash?

Those couple of years where the carbon is in the form of methane instead of CO2 have a big impact because methane is a much stronger greenhouse gas.

Re: Red seaweed supplementation reduces enteric methane by over 80% in beef steers

#129
post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Artificial chicken stuffed with soy and other fillers can't be long term indistinguishable to your body. I wish you lasting health, but fear you are suggesting we all gamble on the oversight and benevolence of the food industry by eating even more processed, engineered foods than even Doritos or Taco Bell as your main protein source(s). Yes, industrial food does bad things to produce large amounts of chicken, but the…

Got any research to back up your claims? Your "natural" meat also contains "natural stress hormones", "natural inflamation inducing cytokines", and not so natural antibiotics. Your anti-scientific attitude is not helpfull.

Over-processed food is nothing new, and the issues with it won't go away just because you ditch the animal ingredients.

I'll happily eat a vegan meal made from fresh and locally produced ingredients and prepared by a skilled chef. The vegan "burgers" and "sausages" from the store? I won't touch them any more than I'd touch frozen chicken nuggets or fish fingers.

Re: Red seaweed supplementation reduces enteric methane by over 80% in beef steers

#130
post #125

A common misconception which I frequently see when this topic arises is the failure to distinguish carbon cycles and one-way carbon emission. You exhale carbon dioxide. However, this carbon dioxide comes from the carbon in the food you eat, and the food you eat obtained it from the atmosphere. Thus, it's a cycle. As a system (ignoring food transportation, deforestation, etc.) it's effectively carbon neutral. By contr…

> Since the methane released from cattle is continually degrading, it does not accumulate.

That's like saying lakes are impossible because of rivers.

If you look at historical methane concentrations in our atmosphere, they are already almost 3x of pre-industrial levels, and over 3x of mean historical levels over the past ~1 million years [1]

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atmospheric_methane

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