Richard Stallman is coming back to the board of the FSF • Hacker News Board

Re: Richard Stallman is coming back to the board of the FSF

#321

Post by eyelidlessness » Mon, Mar 22, 2021, 6:51 AM UTC

ethbr0 wrote: post #98

nostrademons wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ribbonfarm called this a couple years ago: https://www.ribbonfarm.com/2018/03/06/a-quick-battle-field-g... Specifically battlefront #8. He calls it consequential because the the neurodivergent/PC conflict highlights an inherent paradox in the PC worldview. Most applications of political correctness focus (at least on the surface) on defending a marginalized group against the verbal attacks of a privileged one. When a…

Honestly asking, what's the difference between someone being neurodivergent and just thoughtless / mean / an ass?

If you’re honestly asking, it’s a rude question as stated. But if you’re sincerely admitting you don’t understand the difference, the difference is this:

Many people (including myself) have difficulty with certain social cues and expectations. Many of us can be offputting or come off as overly direct or disrespectful. Where we diverge is when and how we address that fact. Do we (only) lash out and expect the world to accommodate our conclusions, or do we (ever or readily) reflect on that conflict and try to live in some kind of shared world?

Obviously what I’m describing is a spectrum, not an absolute. But if you’re trying to understand whether someone on the spectrum is a jerk, your answer is “how much do they use their social faculties to navigate sharing a world?”

Which is pretty much the same measure as anyone not on the spectrum.

Re: Richard Stallman is coming back to the board of the FSF

#322

Post by eyelidlessness » Mon, Mar 22, 2021, 6:56 AM UTC

skissane wrote: post #320

ethbr0 wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honestly asking, what's the difference between someone being neurodivergent and just thoughtless / mean / an ass?

What counts as "neurodivergent"? Just ASD? What about other psychiatric diagnoses? A lot of "non-autistic assholes" may have other diagnosable conditions, for example narcissistic personality disorder (NPD) or antisocial personality disorder (ASPD). Are NPD or ASPD "neurodiverse" or "neurodivergent"? They are probably partially genetic, just as ASD is probably partially genetic.

Other commonly classified neurodivergent diagnoses are ADHD and OCD (which along with ASD commonly overlap). They don’t have much overlap with personality disorders (which do have a lot of overlap among that category).

Re: Richard Stallman is coming back to the board of the FSF

#323

Post by m463 » Mon, Mar 22, 2021, 6:58 AM UTC

dralley wrote: post #65

IMO, Stallman is a good philosophical leader, but a terrible organizational leader. "On the board" is a decent compromise. But he has been a huge contributor to GNU's decent into irrelevance in recent years. As an organization, they're perpetually stuck in the 1990s.

Honestly, I think the GNU software is a little like "giving a man a fish"

Meanwhile, the GPL License is more "teaching a man to fish", and I think the software written and protected by this license has grown, both in importance and coverage.

Lots of people are "getting it" as we clearly see how "our" phones and computers are really not living up to their promise.

Re: Richard Stallman is coming back to the board of the FSF

#324

Post by ogurechny » Mon, Mar 22, 2021, 6:59 AM UTC

JohnHaugeland wrote: post #14

Mediterraneo10 wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Again, maybe it was "hard to interact with him" only if one was unwilling to accept his difference?

Please stop. He argued that pedophilia was okay.

Please stop. You are using the modern “inexcusable” accusation that only serves as a tool to shut others' mouths and bend them to submission to authority (“Communist”, “Jew”, or “enemy of the people”).

Re: Richard Stallman is coming back to the board of the FSF

#325

Post by eyelidlessness » Mon, Mar 22, 2021, 6:59 AM UTC

esja wrote: post #306

ethbr0 wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honestly asking, what's the difference between someone being neurodivergent and just thoughtless / mean / an ass?

Intent.

As a neurodivergent person, intent is the most frequent source of conflict for me. Where I mean well but say the wrong thing almost always sits at the bottom of the well of what goes wrong between me and my people I care about. Intent isn’t enough. Listening, caring, and having intuition for what people need is a much larger task than abstract care and empathy.

Re: Richard Stallman is coming back to the board of the FSF

#326

Post by Aloha » Mon, Mar 22, 2021, 7:04 AM UTC

eyelidlessness wrote: post #321

ethbr0 wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honestly asking, what's the difference between someone being neurodivergent and just thoughtless / mean / an ass?

If you’re honestly asking, it’s a rude question as stated. But if you’re sincerely admitting you don’t understand the difference, the difference is this: Many people (including myself) have difficulty with certain social cues and expectations. Many of us can be offputting or come off as overly direct or disrespectful. Where we diverge is when and how we address that fact. Do we (only) lash out and expect the world to…

Agreed.

I've spent a lifetime learning a rulebook by trial and error that everyone else just seems to know.

It's absolutely maddening then the rules suddenly change for no discernible reason, often with little warning and grave consequences with no second chances for screwing it up.

Re: Richard Stallman is coming back to the board of the FSF

#327

Post by phreack » Mon, Mar 22, 2021, 7:06 AM UTC

This is a controversial opinion, but I believe someone who turns any space he's in into an unsafe place for women should not be leading the FSF. No matter who or their accomplishments. I never saw him being kicked out as unfounded, there were years and years of people being solicited sexually even after explicit non-consent by this man. He just seems to be unwilling to be professional towards women.

Re: Richard Stallman is coming back to the board of the FSF

#328

Post by Aloha » Mon, Mar 22, 2021, 7:08 AM UTC

DiggyJohnson wrote: post #275

gizmo686 wrote: post #260

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As I said, I can pass. My point is that other people making me put in the work to pass are being assholes. The irony of them doing so in the name of diversity and inclusion is not lost on me. > that your emotional intelligence was learned rather than instinctual does not make it less real. That is a rather technical statement, that would be dependent on exactly what you mean by "emotional intelligence". Relying on ge…

Word for word, what you said here is extremely valuable to me. I hope that this isn’t seen as the typical guideline-breaking +1. Sometimes I resent the patchy compensation mechanisms I’ve built up. It’s almost impossible to explain the frustration, the exhaustion, of choosing to be kind in a fashion that differs from my own understanding of kindness. I am inherently kind, and I don’t have to choose that. I am confide…

And god, it's so exhausting.

I have a generic model and I develop ones for individual people too, what one key find normal another will find distressing - and none of it makes any sense to me at all.

Re: Richard Stallman is coming back to the board of the FSF

#329

Post by watwut » Mon, Mar 22, 2021, 7:08 AM UTC

geofft wrote: post #204

metalforever wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am not sure if you or a lot of the posters here really understand autism . This is someone with an extremely low emotional iq and an extreme emotional difference.

Maybe someone with an extremely low emotional IQ should not be the public face of an activism organization whose primariy job is to persuade the public, then? A lot of the internal-to-the-free-software-community frustration with RMS was how he had basically stopped contributing code to GNU but still felt entitled to overrule maintainers. He is a talented coder! He could have continued to use his skills to write free…

Sounds like stereotypical manager that used to code, stopped doing and slowly forgot how it is done, but still think it is good idea to talk about it constantly.

Re: Richard Stallman is coming back to the board of the FSF

#330

Post by Aloha » Mon, Mar 22, 2021, 7:10 AM UTC

nostrademons wrote: post #41

Mediterraneo10 wrote: post #8

I think it is strange that, on the one hand, the tech world has been advocating for the rights of neurodivergent people – society should accept that people on the autism spectrum are different and that’s OK. But at the same time RMS has been attacked for some statements very probably stemming from his autism that, while they may seem a bit shocking and at odds with the mainstream, were not illegal or intentionally of…

Ribbonfarm called this a couple years ago: https://www.ribbonfarm.com/2018/03/06/a-quick-battle-field-g... Specifically battlefront #8. He calls it consequential because the the neurodivergent/PC conflict highlights an inherent paradox in the PC worldview. Most applications of political correctness focus (at least on the surface) on defending a marginalized group against the verbal attacks of a privileged one. When a…

It's like this, I've spent a lifetime learning a rulebook by trial and error that everyone else just seems to know.

It's absolutely maddening when the rules suddenly change for no discernible reason, often with little warning and grave consequences with no second chances for screwing it up.

I see people clamoring for a safe spaces and I wonder where I can find such a thing? (To an extent I can find one at sci-fi, anime and furry conventions are mostly safe spaces for people like me, it's just jarring when I need to leave)