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Neutralizing antibodies against SARS-CoV-2 variants after infection, vaccination

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Re: Neutralizing antibodies against SARS-CoV-2 variants after infection, vaccination

#241

Post by sampo »

yashap wrote: post #164
WalterBright wrote: post #133

We've been vaccinating people since December. There ought to be statistical evidence now of whether and how much vaccinated people still get sick from Covid and its variants. Why do we still hear that epidemiologists have no idea about this? For example, everyone being tested for covid or being admitted to the hospital for covid, should be asked if they've been vaccinated, when, and which vaccination. 70 million peop…

We do have real world results, and they’re mostly very good. For example, analysis of the real world effectiveness of the Pfizer vaccine in Israel: > The latest analysis from the MoH proves that two weeks after the second vaccine dose protection is even stronger – vaccine effectiveness was at least 97% in preventing symptomatic disease, severe/critical disease and death. https://www.pfizer.com/news/press-release/pres…

> The AstraZeneca vaccine looks not so good

This study, from Scotland, looks at risk of hospitalization after first dose of either Pfizer or AstraZeneca vaccine. The Pfizer and AstraZeneca vaccines look equally good. If anything, in the raw numbers AstraZeneca looks a little better that Pfizer, but the difference is well inside error bars.

https://www.bmj.com/content/372/bmj.n523

> especially against the South African variant

There is this one study, a proper randomized controlled trial from South Africa with 2000 people. But it only studies the AstraZeneca vaccine. They only saw mild (15 vaccine recipients and 17 placebo recipients) or moderate (4 vaccine recipients and 6 placebo recipients) infections, so they can not say anything about severe disease, because no one got it.

And they only studied AstraZeneca. Unfortunately, this study has been giving AstraZeneca maybe an undeservedly bad reputation, as media goes around saying that AstraZeneca specifically is not effective against the B.1.351 variant, suggesting that other vaccines would be. But as far as I know, similar studies of other vaccines do not exist, so we just don't know yet if they would be, maybe, equally bad against the B.1.351 variant or not.

https://www.nejm.org/doi/10.1056/NEJMoa2102214

Re: Neutralizing antibodies against SARS-CoV-2 variants after infection, vaccination

#243

Post by halfmatthalfcat »

postalrat wrote: post #58
halfmatthalfcat wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wearing masks have benefits beyond covid. Think about how many lives per year we could save from the flu let alone other airborne respiratory viruses if mask wearing was normalized.

Just think of how many lives will be saved if people never leave their homes.

Amazing how insecure people get when you suggest a simple gesture that would ultimately better society. Mask wearing is normalized in the East, why not in the West? Is it because "mah freedoms?" Grow up.

Re: Neutralizing antibodies against SARS-CoV-2 variants after infection, vaccination

#244

Post by sdenton4 »

irq11 wrote: post #230
sdenton4 wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That was the "let me Google that for you" response to your own completely unsupported claim. It seems like you're unwilling to look at evidence contrary to your opinions; the 'debate' is amongst deniers who aren't looking at evidence. I suggest some self reflection is in order; you're arguing with the same tactics as a climate change denier. https://www.health.harvard.edu/blog/the-tragedy-of-the-post-... https://en.m…

You’re making the claim. Prove it. Don’t give me an editorial. Don’t give me a wikipedia page. Link to the controlled studies, showing the widespread damage that you’ve claimed. You can’t, because they don’t exist. You linked to the best there is, and it doesn’t rise to any reasonable standards of scientific evidence. Self-reported data is almost worthless. Uncontrolled , self-reported data is worthless. I’m perfectl…

There are two studies linked directly from the Harvard health article, one tracking Italian outpatients, and the other using randomized phone follow-up. Feel free to go read them, and more besides.

There's a constellation of individually imperfect studies pointing in the exact same direction; that's basically how science happens. The studies exist in the first place because people observed Something Strange was happening, and wanted to quickly get a sense of severity and prevalence, to inform public health response.

And if you're not willing to update your priors, I'll be here waiting for the perfect study that proves long covid doesn't exist...

Re: Neutralizing antibodies against SARS-CoV-2 variants after infection, vaccination

#246

Post by postalrat »

halfmatthalfcat wrote: post #243
postalrat wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just think of how many lives will be saved if people never leave their homes.

Amazing how insecure people get when you suggest a simple gesture that would ultimately better society. Mask wearing is normalized in the East, why not in the West? Is it because "mah freedoms?" Grow up.

Did you just reply to the wrong comment? I didn't say anything about masks.

Re: Neutralizing antibodies against SARS-CoV-2 variants after infection, vaccination

#247

Post by SpicyLemonZest »

icedchai wrote: post #231
SpicyLemonZest wrote: post #219

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you're misunderstanding the question. Many of the components of "back to normal" are about voluntary compliance with disease control measures. For example, I currently hang out with friends only outdoors or in very small groups - not because I couldn't do more, or because I'm afraid to, but because I'm hoping to prosocially blunt the spread of disease. Right now, I've already started going to restaurants (alt…

If you told people in March, 2020, that this would still be going on over a year from now, and likely 18+ months from now, what do you think the reaction would be? "You're crazy"??? Trump was talking about "reopening" things for Easter last year. He should've said Easter, 2022. I was looking back at some old texts from a friend, last year around this time... "I hope this isn't going on 6 months from now." People want…

There are already areas of the country where "this" isn't going on, where businesses are open at full capacity and the public is happy to patronize them. Even in the most socially distanced areas, there's lots of people going on vacations and eating in restaurants and having house parties with their friends and family. So when you talk about reopening in Easter 2022, it's hard to connect that with the state of things today, much less the likely results when vaccines finish rolling out.

Re: Neutralizing antibodies against SARS-CoV-2 variants after infection, vaccination

#248

Post by halfmatthalfcat »

postalrat wrote: post #246
halfmatthalfcat wrote: post #243

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Amazing how insecure people get when you suggest a simple gesture that would ultimately better society. Mask wearing is normalized in the East, why not in the West? Is it because "mah freedoms?" Grow up.

Did you just reply to the wrong comment? I didn't say anything about masks.

Your comment wasn't constructive and at worst, sounded like you were making light of mask wearing by suggesting we should just never leave our houses. Of course if everyone was confined to their houses, there would be less sickness but nobody is debating that. We're debating the normalization of mask wearing.

Re: Neutralizing antibodies against SARS-CoV-2 variants after infection, vaccination

#249

Post by yawaworht1978 »

Fomite wrote: post #214
yawaworht1978 wrote: post #169

I am very clueless on the vaccine topic (not a denier of covid or anti vaxxer). All I know is from listening to some interviews with a scientist in the field. But i still do not know what is the definition of "effective vaccine". What does it do? If you have covid and take the vaccine, will the covid go away? Are you still contagious after having the vaccine or can you still get the covid but without the bad effects?…

I'll take a swing at this, being an infectious disease epidemiologist. When people talk about the "effectiveness of the vaccine", what's actually happening is that they're talking about a smear of different things, which is why you're (justifiably) confused. There's a few different aspects to think about: 1) When people say things like "The Moderna vaccine is 95% effective", the statistic they're citing is that in a…

Thank you and all others who chimed in for this most valuable insight and contribution.

Re: Neutralizing antibodies against SARS-CoV-2 variants after infection, vaccination

#250

Post by helge9210 »

yashap wrote: post #164
WalterBright wrote: post #133

We've been vaccinating people since December. There ought to be statistical evidence now of whether and how much vaccinated people still get sick from Covid and its variants. Why do we still hear that epidemiologists have no idea about this? For example, everyone being tested for covid or being admitted to the hospital for covid, should be asked if they've been vaccinated, when, and which vaccination. 70 million peop…

We do have real world results, and they’re mostly very good. For example, analysis of the real world effectiveness of the Pfizer vaccine in Israel: > The latest analysis from the MoH proves that two weeks after the second vaccine dose protection is even stronger – vaccine effectiveness was at least 97% in preventing symptomatic disease, severe/critical disease and death. https://www.pfizer.com/news/press-release/pres…

> analysis of the real world effectiveness of the Pfizer vaccine in Israel:

In Israel vaccinated population is not tested for COVID-19 unless admitted to hospital in serious condition.

In the past two month 22% of those who died because of COVID-19 have received both doses of the Pfizer vaccine.

MoH refuses to clarify further on testing policies and outcomes.

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