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Richard Stallman is coming back to the board of the FSF

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Re: Richard Stallman is coming back to the board of the FSF

#231
post #195

Richard says he's not autistic. People who try to conflate his bad behaviour and autism are excusing his behaviour and unfairly generalising about autistic people. Richard is argumentative about his bad behaviour. He's not oblivious. Plenty of people have spoken to him about it. You'd think he might take a hint after being removed from his own organisation and all the surrounding commentary. He doesn't care. (Separat…

No, I think claiming one can extrapolate from one particular autistic person to all autistic people is "unfairly generalising about autistic people." Autism is a broad spectrum (and far from unidimensional) which manifests in a broad diversity of ways.

I'll generally excuse people who are trying to do the right thing. Richard is trying to do the right thing. If you don't, you'll do very badly in other cultures. By US standards, most cultures do things which are extremely abusive or neglectful (and vice-versa).

I will also mention autism is a psychological term defined in DSM, not a self-identity term. Many people who are autistic don't believe they are, and vice-versa. It's not a personal choice.

Re: Richard Stallman is coming back to the board of the FSF

#232

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How does one accurately quantify hypothetical contributions by people who may or may not exist?

Most things in life aren't quantifiable, unfortunately. In our field we're spoiled by how many things can be reduced to numbers, but when it comes to interactions between humans it's essentially impossible. So instead, we have to use subjective evaluations . My subjective evaluation, having met RMS in person and looked at the consistent patterns in his behavior, is that he is "below replacement value" -- he has overa…

Thank you for the clarification. Please understand that I don't mean to be pedantic.

Re: Richard Stallman is coming back to the board of the FSF

#233

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please stop. He argued that pedophilia was okay.

No, he didn't. He defended a dead person from accusations of pedophilia and had quotes from it taken tremendously out of context.

Yes, he did, multiple times.

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20994216

Re: Richard Stallman is coming back to the board of the FSF

#234
post #219

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I would recommend looking into the less pleasant facts about others you consider philosophically brilliant, especially those further removed from us in time, before you denounce Richard Stallman as irredeemable to history. This is illegible and does not seem to follow from the rest of this thread. I'm missing where the GP made a statement about a person's "philosophical brilliance." Did I miss something, or is this…

I believed I was responding to a comment by the user "zeruch". I may not be using this comment section correctly. >His philosophical brilliance has always impressed me, his personal presence is like rotting offal in the sun. He doesn't get the benefit of being remembered for the former when he puts in so much effort to broadcast the latter.

Sorry about that. Trying to figure out what both comments meant to convey given the ambiguity of language, especially in a heated discussion.

Re: Richard Stallman is coming back to the board of the FSF

#235
I am here to say I am pleased to see RMS active in software issues again.

I am a fan of his ideas related to software, and his gift to us has paid me and most of my peers off over and over. Tons of others have added to all that and here we are today.

Personally, I will consider what he says about software, data, IP.

The man is not often wrong. Has a lot to say, and he should be heard.

There are other issues, and that is all quite difficult. Painful. I would say unnecessary, but I know better, save to say I do not see that in terms of bad intent. I do see a very different set of priorities. Not speaking to right or wrong here, just understanding and a desire to move open ideas further along, bolster them to endure.

I sincerely hope everyone involved can help keep the focus where it counts.

I do not plan on speaking to RMS as a person, nor giving his opinions weight outside of computing freedom. Given these times, an RMS, however painful, seems necessary.

I just want the software, data, IP vision to endure, thrive and continue to deliver far more use value than any one contributor adds or user invests. He can really help to do that, and I think he should.

OSS is a beautiful thing.

I remember the first time I heard about GNU. Was profound.

Took a while, and the likes of ESR and others who took the time to write and speak to people like me seeking to grok it all.

Unlike physical goods and services, software can be a multiplier. The whole is greater than the parts. We can, and often easily do, get more than we may give.

These ideas have empowered people all over the world.

And they range from curious, driven people of little means dumpster diving to get going through to others who may want for nothing, all able to pick up the body of OSS code and open data and run with it.

I feel deeply our actions, law, norms, expectations all set now will matter for a very long time.

Getting all that more right than wrong is going to touch pretty much everyone and the potential impacts are profound. The possible futures vary widely, and not just degrees of good. It could all be not so good at all.

Either way, this will all solidify.

Does not have to be bad. I sure hope it isn't.

Re: Richard Stallman is coming back to the board of the FSF

#237
post #234

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believed I was responding to a comment by the user "zeruch". I may not be using this comment section correctly. >His philosophical brilliance has always impressed me, his personal presence is like rotting offal in the sun. He doesn't get the benefit of being remembered for the former when he puts in so much effort to broadcast the latter.

Sorry about that. Trying to figure out what both comments meant to convey given the ambiguity of language, especially in a heated discussion.

No problem at all.

Re: Richard Stallman is coming back to the board of the FSF

#238

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then why would someone choose to be an ass - or generally choose to be unlikable?

I think there are a lot of people out there that enjoy being an ass. You can even be rich by being an ass, like the Fox News anchors.

or the CNN anchors

Re: Richard Stallman is coming back to the board of the FSF

#239
post #184

I think it is strange that, on the one hand, the tech world has been advocating for the rights of neurodivergent people – society should accept that people on the autism spectrum are different and that’s OK. But at the same time RMS has been attacked for some statements very probably stemming from his autism that, while they may seem a bit shocking and at odds with the mainstream, were not illegal or intentionally of…

I'm wondering how we decide where people who are different are behaving because of that.... or a choice they made that they are responsible for? I'm not sure how to make that call.

What we can do is speak to their actions and leave the door open for them to improve.

And I am not talking about avoiding consequences. Those are ever present as they should be.

However it all plays out, if we do shut that door, what inventive is there for people to improve?

Secondly, how do they actually present having done it, or even begin the attempt when those doors are slammed shut?

It should not be easy, but should also be possible.

Re: Richard Stallman is coming back to the board of the FSF

#240
post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think it's unreasonable to interpret "I am skeptical of the claim that voluntarily pedophilia harms children" as a suggestion that there are circumstances under which paedophilia is OK. Suggesting that someone doing so is willfully, blatantly lying seems like an unsupported claim.

There is another sentence after the one you quote which takes the edge off it. Dropping that part could be construed as willfully taking his words out of context to makes them sound worse. IMHO taken as a whole I think it says more about his lack of understanding than him endorsing anything. But as you say, that's not blatant lying.

> The arguments that it causes harm seem to be based on cases which aren't voluntary, which are then stretched by parents who are horrified by the idea that their little baby is maturing.

This doesn't take the edge off, it makes it sound worse

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