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Scientist behind Covid-19 mRNA vaccine says her team's next target is cancer

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Re: Scientist behind Covid-19 mRNA vaccine says her team's next target is cancer

#81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Accessible and reasonably good NYT article: https://archive.md/5nWok ( https://www.nytimes.com/2012/12/10/health/a-breakthrough-aga... ) And as of 2019, the patient is still cancer free: https://emilywhiteheadfoundation.org/news/celebrating-7-year...

A bit off-topic, but any idea how much it costs to get an experimental treatment like this?

The NYT article I linked to actually has two pages. The second page goes into more details on cost. Here's a direct link to both pages of the article: https://archive.md/Fwyo0

Here's the relevant quote:

> The Pennsylvania researchers said they were surprised to find any big drug company interested in their work, because a new batch of T-cells must be created for each patient — a far cry from the familiar commercial strategy of developing products like Viagra or cholesterol medicines, in which millions of people take the same drug.

> But Mr. Hoppenot said Novartis was taking a different path with cancer drugs, looking for treatments that would have a big, unmistakable impact on a small number of patients. Such home-run drugs can be approved more quickly and efficiently, he said, with smaller studies than are needed for drugs with less obvious benefits.

> “The economic model is totally acceptable,” Mr. Hoppenot said.

> But such drugs tend to be extremely expensive. A prime example is the Novartis drug Gleevec, which won rapid approval in 2001 for use against certain types of leukemia and gastrointestinal tumors. It can cost more than $5,000 a month, depending on the dosage.

> Dr. June said that producing engineered T-cells costs about $20,000 per patient — far less than the cost of a bone-marrow transplant. Scaling up the procedure should make it even less expensive, he said, but he added, “Our costs do not include any profit margin, facility depreciation costs or other clinical care costs, and other research costs.”

Re: Scientist behind Covid-19 mRNA vaccine says her team's next target is cancer

#82
post #78

It was done before when they used a inactivated HIV virus to cure a child with leukemia by reprogramming her T cells. She was in the terminal stage of disease so hence the approval of the experimental treatment , we don't know the long term effects or why it did not work consistently in other patients.

They're trying to do a cancer vaccine, not treatment for those afflicted with cancer already

How would a cancer vaccine work? A mRNA-based proofreader?

Re: Scientist behind Covid-19 mRNA vaccine says her team's next target is cancer

#83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A bit off-topic, but any idea how much it costs to get an experimental treatment like this?

The NYT article I linked to actually has two pages. The second page goes into more details on cost. Here's a direct link to both pages of the article: https://archive.md/Fwyo0 Here's the relevant quote: > The Pennsylvania researchers said they were surprised to find any big drug company interested in their work, because a new batch of T-cells must be created for each patient — a far cry from the familiar commercial s…

Wow, thanks! $20k is lower than I expected! I guess when they add in the other costs it will be a fair bit higher, but still.

Re: Scientist behind Covid-19 mRNA vaccine says her team's next target is cancer

#84
post #63
post #7

I don't quite follow. The whole shtick with problem cancers is that your immune system is ignoring them for whatever reason. mRNA vaccines work by priming the immune system for something it would attack anyway, but under safer circumstances since there's no real virus in the vaccine. What can the mRNA create that the immune system will train on given that the immune system isn't attacking the real thing to begin with…

I was wondering the same thing. Vaccination means exercising against a mockup foe before meeting the real enemy. But the cancer patient is already deep into the battle, how could adding mockup enemies help winning? Perhaps the molecules they want the immune system to attack aren't sufficiently mobile, sticking to the tumor instead of diffusing into the entire body? From what I've picked up in the pandemic the immune…

The core issue with cancer is that the immune system does not combat the tumor. Cancer patients suffer from damage caused by the tumor and by aggressive therapies.

Cancerous mutations happen all the time. Usually, the affected cells either

* repair the damage, * get wrecked by the damage's side effects, * suicide or * get blasted by the immune system because the mutation alters their surface proteins in weird ways.

Tumors form because the cancerous mutations succeed to fly under the radar of the immune system. mRNA therapy can be used to make the immune system target specific surface features of cancer cells, or to do something else in connection with the cancer cells that attracts the immune system's attention.

Re: Scientist behind Covid-19 mRNA vaccine says her team's next target is cancer

#85

I know that they've made HIV a chronic condition rather than a deadly disease, but I'd still like to see it eradicated with a vaccine. Same for herpes and viral hepatitis. I hope they tackle all those in due time.

And HPV

Re: Scientist behind Covid-19 mRNA vaccine says her team's next target is cancer

#86
post #45

Anyone more knowledgeable than myself following any of the research saying that the mRNA vaccines can be dangerous due to over/mis-expression, such as: https://carterheavyindustries.files.wordpress.com/2021/02/co...

I'm not certain that anyone should be taking a "scientific paper" seriously that concludes with: > Many have raised the warning that the current epidemic of COVID-19 is actually the result of an bioweapons attack released in part by individuals in the United States government Also, a bit about the author: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/J._Bart_Classen

Here's one response to this paper.

https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/can-mrna-based-covid-19- vaccines-cause-prion-disease/

It concludes (regarding the claim) that "mRNA-based COVID-19 vaccines can cause prion disease leading to neurodegenerative diseases like Alzheimer’s dementia. What are prions, and can these vaccines cause prion disease? (Spoiler alert: The answer to the second question is almost certainly no. It’s speculation based on highly implausible biology.)"

Classen is correct in one respect at least: "the current RNA based SARS Cov-2 vaccine has been approved in the US on emergency order without long term safety testing." But I think we all know that and understand why.

Re: Scientist behind Covid-19 mRNA vaccine says her team's next target is cancer

#87

I know that they've made HIV a chronic condition rather than a deadly disease, but I'd still like to see it eradicated with a vaccine. Same for herpes and viral hepatitis. I hope they tackle all those in due time.

Why would a corporation risk loosing customers by eradicating a disease? What would shareholders say? Is it even legal?

"chronic condition" sounds like a guaranteed profit for many years. Curing/preventing disease is a bad business.

Re: Scientist behind Covid-19 mRNA vaccine says her team's next target is cancer

#88
post #78

It was done before when they used a inactivated HIV virus to cure a child with leukemia by reprogramming her T cells. She was in the terminal stage of disease so hence the approval of the experimental treatment , we don't know the long term effects or why it did not work consistently in other patients.

They're trying to do a cancer vaccine, not treatment for those afflicted with cancer already

It is a treatment for people with cancer.

The mRNA cancer vaccine they're developing is for people who already have cancer. It's targeted based on the specific tumour the patient has, and basically primes the immune system to attack the cancer cells. They can't even develop the vaccine until the patient has the cancer it's fighting against.

Re: Scientist behind Covid-19 mRNA vaccine says her team's next target is cancer

#89
post #87

I know that they've made HIV a chronic condition rather than a deadly disease, but I'd still like to see it eradicated with a vaccine. Same for herpes and viral hepatitis. I hope they tackle all those in due time.

Why would a corporation risk loosing customers by eradicating a disease? What would shareholders say? Is it even legal? "chronic condition" sounds like a guaranteed profit for many years. Curing/preventing disease is a bad business.

We need to stop tolerating these kind of tinfoil conspiration theories. It does not even make economical sense.

If you are the first to come up with a cure for that disease you will make huge profit compare to the rest of the industry. Especially if the cure involves coming up with a vaccine or a personalized treatment. Thats like the sustainable subscription wet dream of software companies.

Re: Scientist behind Covid-19 mRNA vaccine says her team's next target is cancer

#90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The NYT article I linked to actually has two pages. The second page goes into more details on cost. Here's a direct link to both pages of the article: https://archive.md/Fwyo0 Here's the relevant quote: > The Pennsylvania researchers said they were surprised to find any big drug company interested in their work, because a new batch of T-cells must be created for each patient — a far cry from the familiar commercial s…

Wow, thanks! $20k is lower than I expected! I guess when they add in the other costs it will be a fair bit higher, but still.

Might still be reasonably priced if/when it's available in countries other than the US?

Specifically, countries that don't have a broken extremely-overinflated-pricing model for health care.

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