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Ghana will no longer sell cocoa to Switzerland

face2faceafrica.com

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Re: Ghana will no longer sell cocoa to Switzerland

#291

Post by valuearb »

prepend wrote: post #55

I think it’s good to see raw producers start working up market to make their own chocolate. I think a Ghanaian chocolate brand actually owned by Ghanaians and made for export would market very well. It’s interesting to me how much tasty and interesting stuff in Africa has not been marketed internationally and there’s lots of room for them to grow and develop. For example, fonio [0], is a grain native to west Africa t…

Or they just opened the door for other countries to get in the cocoa business, while their chocolate business fails because they don’t have the expertise, brands or market access to succeed.

Re: Ghana will no longer sell cocoa to Switzerland

#293

Post by jkepler »

babesh wrote: post #238
audunw wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I really think China is making a huge mistake actually. See how TSMC (Taiwan) and Samsung are free to buy ASMLs EUV machines, while China is blocked. Part of that is due to their rampant IP theft. Why sell machines to China if they're just going to copy them? China also messed up big time by enforcing their 1 child policy, and taking so long to open up and industrialize. They're far behind economically compared to wh…

The 1 child policy is probably a big issue but IP theft is partly how the US industrialized. The textile mills of the North that kicked off industrialization in the US was based off of IP stolen from Britain. In fact, many of the practices that the Chinese are using were also used by the Americans: smuggling plans, hiring key employees, tariffs, etc. https://www.realclearmarkets.com/articles/2018/07/30/ip_thef... ! h…

Isn't the underlying problem here the idea of Intellectual Property doesn't really correspond to real property? If I have an ax I use to provide lumber to our town and you steal it physically from me, that's theft. But if you see my ax, understand how it works, and make your own to also cut lumber, is that really theft? Or is it net beneficial to the town, as now people have more cut lumber to choose from and perhaps lower prices? However, if I lobby to get an IP law, how does that serve the community? It only protects me from competition.

Re: Ghana will no longer sell cocoa to Switzerland

#294

Post by [deleted] »

babesh wrote: post #238
audunw wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I really think China is making a huge mistake actually. See how TSMC (Taiwan) and Samsung are free to buy ASMLs EUV machines, while China is blocked. Part of that is due to their rampant IP theft. Why sell machines to China if they're just going to copy them? China also messed up big time by enforcing their 1 child policy, and taking so long to open up and industrialize. They're far behind economically compared to wh…

The 1 child policy is probably a big issue but IP theft is partly how the US industrialized. The textile mills of the North that kicked off industrialization in the US was based off of IP stolen from Britain. In fact, many of the practices that the Chinese are using were also used by the Americans: smuggling plans, hiring key employees, tariffs, etc. https://www.realclearmarkets.com/articles/2018/07/30/ip_thef... ! h…

[deleted]

Re: Ghana will no longer sell cocoa to Switzerland

#295

Post by ggm »

If the raw cocoa had attracted a price closer to the final products value, this wouldn't have happened. Sure, the value add is significant and so this is not just "chocolate is the value inherent in the beans" but really? This is happening because chocolate consumable production underpays the farmers.

This response is a good thing. I hope they succeed, its as steep hill to climb making good chocolate from cocoa.

Re: Ghana will no longer sell cocoa to Switzerland

#296

Post by mpoteat »

jkepler wrote: post #293
babesh wrote: post #238

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The 1 child policy is probably a big issue but IP theft is partly how the US industrialized. The textile mills of the North that kicked off industrialization in the US was based off of IP stolen from Britain. In fact, many of the practices that the Chinese are using were also used by the Americans: smuggling plans, hiring key employees, tariffs, etc. https://www.realclearmarkets.com/articles/2018/07/30/ip_thef... ! h…

Isn't the underlying problem here the idea of Intellectual Property doesn't really correspond to real property? If I have an ax I use to provide lumber to our town and you steal it physically from me, that's theft. But if you see my ax, understand how it works, and make your own to also cut lumber, is that really theft? Or is it net beneficial to the town, as now people have more cut lumber to choose from and perhaps…

The theory is that nobody will invest in e.g. researching how to build a complicated lumber cutting machine if they don't have protections against their competitor copying the results.

Let's say this research costs 1 million dollars, and the company bankrolls this via a loan. They build it and are successful, and begin paying it off.

Their competitor copies their idea, and exploits the fact that they have more capital and less debt to buy up more of the market, and end up the winner.

So, under a zero protection scheme it is optimal to wait until your competitor invests in research, and then just steal it. Which is what happens on a geopolitical level where there is no feasible enforcement possible.

Re: Ghana will no longer sell cocoa to Switzerland

#297

Post by tablespoon »

yorwba wrote: post #125
audunw wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I really think China is making a huge mistake actually. See how TSMC (Taiwan) and Samsung are free to buy ASMLs EUV machines, while China is blocked. Part of that is due to their rampant IP theft. Why sell machines to China if they're just going to copy them? China also messed up big time by enforcing their 1 child policy, and taking so long to open up and industrialize. They're far behind economically compared to wh…

> See how TSMC (Taiwan) and Samsung are free to buy ASMLs EUV machines, while China is blocked. Part of that is due to their rampant IP theft. Why sell machines to China if they're just going to copy them? ASML's machines aren't something you can just copy by buying one of them. (You'd do better by hiring ex-ASML engineers to teach you how to do it.) And ASML would've sold their EUV equipment (just as they continue t…

>> See how TSMC (Taiwan) and Samsung are free to buy ASMLs EUV machines, while China is blocked. Part of that is due to their rampant IP theft. Why sell machines to China if they're just going to copy them?

> You say China took too long to open up and industrialize. Well, they are open to buy from ASML and industrialize with their help, but others are closing that door...

There's also the elephant in the room: China is controlled by the Communist party, which holds values that are antithetical to those of many of its trading partners (https://www.nytimes.com/2013/08/20/world/asia/chinas-new-lea...). Neither Taiwan nor South Korea have that kind of incompatibility. It was kind of naive and arrogant for Western trade policy to focus on stuff like IP theft and market access while ignoring that elephant.

Re: Ghana will no longer sell cocoa to Switzerland

#298

Post by WalterBright »

oblio wrote: post #27
m12k wrote: post #15

I'm reading the book The Divide at the moment. It makes the argument that it takes time and the right conditions to build up an industry - infrastructure needs to be built, education and a skilled labor pool with the necessary know-how as well. To begin with, a fledgling industry in a developing country cannot compete with those of already industrialized countries - these are already so effective that they can underc…

> So the book argues that when developing countries are pressured into free trade agreements This should have been obvious since the Opium Wars and the Opening of Japan (see Commodore Matthew Perry). All developed countries are pro free trade for markets where they are strong and fiercely protectionist where they are not (or they consider those markets strategic priorities). I'm from Romania. Romania joined the EU in…

As a counterexample, the US has 50 states, and no internal protectionism. Yet there are no "colony" states.

Re: Ghana will no longer sell cocoa to Switzerland

#299

Post by nytgop77 »

newswasboring wrote: post #254
audunw wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I really think China is making a huge mistake actually. See how TSMC (Taiwan) and Samsung are free to buy ASMLs EUV machines, while China is blocked. Part of that is due to their rampant IP theft. Why sell machines to China if they're just going to copy them? China also messed up big time by enforcing their 1 child policy, and taking so long to open up and industrialize. They're far behind economically compared to wh…

> See how TSMC (Taiwan) and Samsung are free to buy ASMLs EUV machines, while China is blocked. Part of that is due to their rampant IP theft. Why sell machines to China if they're just going to copy them? You seem a bit misinformed. ASML CEO has repeatedly showed extreme desire to sell in china (it already comprises the fastest growing DUV market)[1]. It's the american pressure, indirectly or directly exerted which…

fact remains, that there are dificlties.

Re: Ghana will no longer sell cocoa to Switzerland

#300

Post by redisman »

tyingq wrote: post #60

"With Ghana’s move towards processing its own cocoa, the world, and not just Switzerland, will experience a massive shortage since Ghana is responsible for about 45% of the world’s cocoa." That seems like bigger news than the headline.

They can outbid the local companies if they want to. The whole point is that Ghana wants to move up the rung from a producer of raw goods to more value add to their exports
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