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Ghana will no longer sell cocoa to Switzerland

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241–250 of 437 posts

Re: Ghana will no longer sell cocoa to Switzerland

#241
post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is effectively how the US built up the industries of Japan, Taiwan and South Korea. The reason these countries were allowed to do it where others are not was because the US wanted strategically placed powerful allies in the region. There probably wouldn't be a Japanese electronics/car industry, for instance, if the Soviets hadn't spooked the the US in the 40s.

The US built those industries only in the same sense that they built Germany's. Japan's industrial base was built before the 40s, with an extensive domestic supply of machine tools and industrial equipment, rail infrastructure, and finished manufactured goods. Or else who do you think was building the planes, ships, and submarines that the allies were fighting on the Pacific front? Their industries were temporarily d…

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Re: Ghana will no longer sell cocoa to Switzerland

#242
post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I really think China is making a huge mistake actually. See how TSMC (Taiwan) and Samsung are free to buy ASMLs EUV machines, while China is blocked. Part of that is due to their rampant IP theft. Why sell machines to China if they're just going to copy them? China also messed up big time by enforcing their 1 child policy, and taking so long to open up and industrialize. They're far behind economically compared to wh…

> Part of that is due to their rampant IP theft Weren’t South Korea, Taiwan, and even Japan once known for their rampant IP theft?

Nowhere near as bad. The sheer scale and reach of Chinese counterfeits/crap quality is epic. If there's an olympics for this, China wins all the medals in every event.

- Fake apple cables

- Fidget spinners

- Remember fake Apple stores? https://www.reuters.com/article/us-china-apple-fake-idUSTRE7...

- Remember the milk scandal? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008_Chinese_milk_scandal

- And don't forget the Three Gorges Dam, where the grifters building it used so much concrete building it (causing a global concrete shortage), but didn't worry about the problems non-homogeneous concrete causes in large load-bearing structures, and skimping on quality and every which way. The CCP has basically admitted the dam is useless for flood control. And it has some cracks, and the weather changes are going to cause more issues.

Re: Ghana will no longer sell cocoa to Switzerland

#243
post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

AFAIK peppers are native to the Americas, I'm not sure there is a "native" African pepper. Though they certainly could have been cultivating them for 400-500 years. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chili_pepper#Origins

Thanks, another item to add to my list: corn, tomatoes, potatoes, and peppers. All are now staples worldwide but were unknown outside of the Americas until ~500 years ago.

Cacao seems like a highly relevant addition while you're at it...

Re: Ghana will no longer sell cocoa to Switzerland

#244
post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Okay, but if local goods can't be produced at a price that is commensurately low, then the fledgingly country's wage earners have their purchasing power reduced, with less discretionary income to further their own educational and business pursuits. I think this thesis you are referring to takes for granted that the tariffs are going to be responsibly used by the governing class setting them to invest in the long term…

>if local goods can't be produced at a price that is commensurately low, then the fledgingly country's wage earners have their purchasing power reduced If the industry they work in can't compete their entire income is reduced to zero. That can knock out related industries as well and ultimately leave the country exposed to currency collapse and hyperinflation as the exporting countries decide that this country has no…

> If the industry they work in can't compete their entire income is reduced to zero.

But I thought we're talking about a time period before that industry even exists.

Re: Ghana will no longer sell cocoa to Switzerland

#245
post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I really think China is making a huge mistake actually. See how TSMC (Taiwan) and Samsung are free to buy ASMLs EUV machines, while China is blocked. Part of that is due to their rampant IP theft. Why sell machines to China if they're just going to copy them? China also messed up big time by enforcing their 1 child policy, and taking so long to open up and industrialize. They're far behind economically compared to wh…

I think it's healthy to have a diverse set of mid and upper market companies. Chinese companies will ultimately buy their way into up market businesses. One antidote that I can readily think of is the acquisition of the street wear company Bape buy a the Chinese/Hong Kong manufacturer I.T Group. Forbes magazine is another company that was acquired by a Chinese company. Furthermore, Hong Kong has some international ap…

Hong Kong companies have better brand reputations than Chinese companies but gradually there are more Chinese brands gaining better reputations.

I would expect this to continue. In fact, there are probably a few brands that are Chinese that you don’t realize are Chinese.

Re: Ghana will no longer sell cocoa to Switzerland

#246
post #66
post #8

Explain LID [0] which is effectively a tax applied to every ton of cocoa sold of which most is paid to the farmers. However I think Ghana is in the wrong here because extorting other nations to give them anything free of charge by withholding trade goods will simply means that the trade goods will eventually be sourced elsewhere. Regardless what you think about rich vs poor, medicine vs goods, and such, IP is propert…

> to deprive another of their rights is never a good idea. (no whataboutism please). What about access to cocoa not being a right?

I think OP is talking about access to the COVID vaccines. As much a human right as access to cocoa really.

Re: Ghana will no longer sell cocoa to Switzerland

#247
post #15

I'm reading the book The Divide at the moment. It makes the argument that it takes time and the right conditions to build up an industry - infrastructure needs to be built, education and a skilled labor pool with the necessary know-how as well. To begin with, a fledgling industry in a developing country cannot compete with those of already industrialized countries - these are already so effective that they can underc…

I don't think this is actually true. IF you go threw all the history of development economics, sure its easy to point out 'X government did X and look at that, now they are successful at X'.

However that is selection bias, government and international development agencies tried literally everything, many things 10 times, often over years and years. Often wasting resources that then didn't go into their successful part of the economy.

Quite often governments also do lead following, they do something, something else is successful, then more money flows into that and then a few years later all the bureaucrats congratulate themselves on their success.

We actually have pretty good and very clear numbers on what actually works. Basically it boils down to 'don't be a shit government' and if you manage that you will have some amount pretty good amount of growth. Avoid a few idioitic policies, implement the basic of law and business (property rights), don't punish successful people, don't be ultra protectionist.

Any country that manages that usually manages to get a fair amount of growth. It might not be growth in Steel industry but better more efficient framing, mining, tourism, labor intensive industry and stuff like that are still very helpful base to build up the basic infrastructure and business environment.

The old Post-WW2 version of 'lets not import steel, invest many billions in building our own steel industry' kind of plans actually have a terrible history of success.

But this debate has been raging for 3000 years now, in modern history mercantilism vs free market debate, then the socialism vs capitalism debate (calculation debate), then Post-WW2 development of 'Development economics' that had all these debates again. Look at India, and its strange 'Indian Socialism' based on many British ideas.

> So much like we allow children time to learn in school before we expect them to compete in the job market

Mostly what we are actually doing for most jobs is kids basically showing that they can be good little workers and have basic social skills.

For a country this would basically be, show that you respect basic property rights, don't have polices that make creating a business impossible, be reasonable accessible to global market. If you can do that, welcome to being adult, you will likely be reasonably successful.

> we should allow developing countries to employ protectionistic policies like tariffs

Allow them sure, who are we to deny them. But that doesn't mean its a good idea most of the time.

Re: Ghana will no longer sell cocoa to Switzerland

#248

> Ghana will no longer sell cocoa to Switzerland This is not true. He only said they are going to try and process some cocoa in Ghana. "we intend to process more and more of our cocoa in our country" https://youtu.be/gs_dD7qKfX8?t=317 It'll take decades and they will grow more to supply both markets, if their market is successful. What's with the hysterical headlines - "Awkward moment when President of Ghana says the…

Yes, this is garbage news. I dont see anything in the top Swiss papers.

Re: Ghana will no longer sell cocoa to Switzerland

#249

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In Hapsburg times, only a fairly small elite outside of Austria knew German. Most people in the Empire knew only their own language (or sometimes e.g. their own language and some degree of Hungarian). It wasn’t until after the fall of the Austro-Hungarian Empire that the average person – due to modern state-schooling curricula, business contacts with German speakers, or going to work in Germany – began to know German…

Public/state workers had to know German, military personnel had to know German and as the education system was building in Habsburg Monarchy and Austro-Hungarian Empire children and university students were learning German. There are more than 2000 German words in Croatian language today dating back from Habsburg Monarchy and Austro-Hungarian Empire. You don't build a bond with some nation and culture over the course…

Speaking of the Ottoman empire, when I watched a Turkish show recently I was surprised to hear a number of words I had no idea were Turkish origin. (Well, could be the other way around too I guess. But they sounded Turkish.) Sanduk, čizma, budala, paramparčad, kapija, sandžak, inat, kutija, ajde just off the top of my head.

The German connection is definitely there. There was even a transliterated word used for people working abroad: "gastarbajter," from German Gastarbeiter. And it was used for anyone working abroad, no matter where :-)

Edit: https://en.wiktionary.org/w/index.php?title=Category:Serbo-C... . I can't believe "boja" is borrowed.

Re: Ghana will no longer sell cocoa to Switzerland

#250
post #15

I'm reading the book The Divide at the moment. It makes the argument that it takes time and the right conditions to build up an industry - infrastructure needs to be built, education and a skilled labor pool with the necessary know-how as well. To begin with, a fledgling industry in a developing country cannot compete with those of already industrialized countries - these are already so effective that they can underc…

> when developing countries are pressured into free trade agreements (for example by making aid dependent on this) "forced" is probably not the right word. "baited" is better. The developed world uses aid/loans to manipulate policy in the developed world, by targeting desperation. Make loans that the recipient cannot repay, then offer to restructure if they will comply with certain conditions. This is why the IMF exi…

"The developed world uses aid/loans"/coups/assassinations/currency-debasement-attacks
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